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These horses that race off a low mark for a good while, showing no improvement whatsoever, should be banned. I would also go as far to say the trainer, and maybe the owners, should be fined.
It is of no use to anyone, let alone the poor horse.Danish Blues is a good one to mention in this context.
Given an official mark of 10 after his three qualifying runs (which grossly flattered him) and went up 53lb after his fourth run!
I once gave a horse a rating of 15 after three runs and was phoned by an irate trainer who demanded "What am I going to tell the owner?".
The truth !! In that he is the proud owner of a turd
TheCheekster is spot on with his comments about banning horses. Trainers like Donal Nolan should also come under scrutiny. They extract fees from owners and the trades description legislation should come into play and protect owners.
If any owner is stupid enough to (a) have horses ‘trained’ by Donal Nolan and (b) continue to shell out entries fees to contest races they haven’t got a prayer in, then I have little sympathy with them.
“11F Southwell 12/13 btn 76 lengths”
I see something finished behind him though? Perhaps IT, whatever it was, is really the worst horse in training, collaterally.
Whats to become of these poor sods when their ‘racing’ careers are over? Will any sane person let them cover a mare? will they know how? im worried.
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned either Mojo or Lesmacadam in this context yet, both horses whose Official Ratings dipped lower than five (I think to one or two) at the end of their Flat careers.
I’d counter The Cheekster and Wallaces’ assertion that banning such animals is to be encouraged, however – it would set an extraordinarily unwise precedent. At what level does one set the bar for banning? How edifying a spectacle would it be to watch a Classified Stakes or seller on the Flat, for example, knowing that anything running poorly enough to get dropped to a mark below the threshold might – in the worst case scenario – book itself an appointment with the gun days later?
Heaven knows the sport has enough image problems in the eyes of the non-expert, casual, outward-looking-in observers without resorting to such suppressing of certain of its animals.
The Cheeskter is also reminded that certain of the horses in her care at present are hardly racing off stellar marks themselves, including one selling hurdler off 58, another off 62, and a chaser off 63. Depending on who’s setting the bar, any of these could be regarded as similarly having nothing left to offer the game, couldn’t they? It’s a slippery slope once first trodden on.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Where did anyone say anything about a bullet?
Im also not sure which horses you are on about, we only have one chaser in the yard and he hasn’t run yet. The only selling hurdler we have in is rated over 80 and was 4th yesterday – so hardly falling down a slippery slope?!
It should be at the BHA discretion, they are quick to ban jumpers who won’t start so don’t see how difficult it can be.
I’m talking about horses who consistently run to a very low mark (as in below 20). They are an embarassment to the sport and they should be taken off the owners or trainers, and they should be forced to burn money in public instead.
There really arent that many, so to say they should be shot is way off the mark. The powers that be should confiscate them off the trainer and put them straight into one of the rehoming centres.
ETS: A similar example;
A woman I know ran a 10yo maiden in a point to point this season. It went a mile, made a noise, pulled up and broke down. Any guesses as to what she did?
She gave it a wind op and is planning on running it this season, apparently because she ‘loves the horse so much’.
That is just short of animal cruelty, and both sports should be regulated more to ensure things like that dont happen.A copy of Mr R.J Price’s hcp marks. I take it that is what you mean by ‘in her care’ (ie. naff all to do with me).
Note the only lowly rated animal is Shaaban, who actually won a race on the flat, so was worth persevering with. He has now been sold to a young girl as a general hack and riding club horse – no bullets there.Animal Name Flat Awt Chase Hurdle
Alasil (USA) 50 (-1) – – 74 h (-)
April The Second (GB) 53 (-) – – –
Arch Folly (GB) 48 (-) 42 a (-) – 70h (new)
Barons Spy (IRE) 79 (-) – – –
Desert Lover (IRE) 46 (-) 48 a (-) – –
Fabrian (GB) 65 (-) – – –
Gallego (GB) 62 (-) 58 a (-) – –
Harare (GB) 75 (-) – – –
Hoh Hoh Hoh (GB) 104 (+4) – – –
Kay Two (IRE) 84 (-) – – –
King Egbert (FR) 50 (-) – – –
Mouseen (IRE) 48 (-) – – 83 h (-2)
Roman Quintet (IRE) 60 (-2) – – –
Shaaban (IRE) 37 (-) 42 a (-) – 62 h (-)Where did anyone say anything about a bullet?
I said "in the worse case scenario". Meaning: there are quite possibly connections less scrupulous than yourselves who would not be as predisposed towards finding a new, loving home for a horse whose mark slipped below any rating that had been set for banning horses.
Im also not sure which horses you are on about, we only have one chaser in the yard and he hasn’t run yet.
I was specifically referring to The Rainbow Man (last ran off 58h), Shaaban (62h, although now evidently sold out of the yard, I read), and Reflex Blue (63c).
I mentioned the lowliness of their ratings (and let’s be honest, a 58-rated jumps animal is far worse than a 58-rated Flat one in real terms, given how the respective ratings scales operate) not to shame your operation, as a moderate horse is a moderate horse and the best efforts in the world won’t necessarily fix that.
Rather, I mentioned them to reiterate that whilst neither of us would regard these animals as unfit to continue under Rules and ripe for banning, the setting of a "ban rating" could run the risk of banning them anyway if set by anyone with a particularly swingeing interpretation of what comprises a "ban-worthy" rating.
As an associate of Ted Caine during Quixall Crossett’s record-breaking season, you can rest assured I seek neither to trash low-grade horses lightly, nor to advocate their banning, forced retirement, destruction, or whatever else. And to that end….
It should be at the BHA discretion, they are quick to ban jumpers who won’t start so don’t see how difficult it can be.
Hmm. I think I would regard a 120-rated jumper who regularly refused to race, or kicked at the start, or frequently went through the wings of fences, as far more worthy of banning than a patent safety jumper with a rating of half that value, whether he gets beaten hollow week in, week out or not.
ETS: A similar example;
A woman I know ran a 10yo maiden in a point to point this season. It went a mile, made a noise, pulled up and broke down. Any guesses as to what she did?
She gave it a wind op and is planning on running it this season, apparently because she ‘loves the horse so much’That’s not exactly treating like with like, though, is it – a horse likely to prove unexceptional and with a demonstrable defect, set against the examples such as your yard’s lesser lights that continue to prove unexceptional but are well looked after and happy.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
If a horse is healthy and sound; enjoys racing; has owner/s willing and able to pay the fees; I don’t see a problem.
Im also not sure which horses you are on about, we only have one chaser in the yard and he hasn’t run yet.
I was specifically referring to The Rainbow Man (last ran off 58h), Shaaban (62h, although now evidently sold out of the yard, I read), and Reflex Blue (63c).
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)The Rainbow Man – How many times did we hammer that one? Did he not look like the winner when falling at Fontwell? Now retired.
Reflex Blue – Won a beginners chase just over a year ago, now sold to go pointing.
Hardly comparable to something running time and time again off a single figure mark.GC,
I think you’re losing your touch – it took you nearly two whole pages on this thread before you could find a reason to mention Cartmel, Fakenham or Quixall Crossett!
The Rainbow Man – How many times did we hammer that one? Did he not look like the winner when falling at Fontwell? Now retired.
Reflex Blue – Won a beginners chase just over a year ago, now sold to go pointing.Neither of those facts are in dispute, for all that a lot of things fell right for Reflex Blue at Stratford that day
Hardly comparable to something running time and time again off a single figure mark.
…as I think I already concurred with in a previous post.
But I trust the point is understood, whether you happen to agree with it or not, that I’d take the banning of horses based solely on the criterion of failing to attain a specific rating a potentially divisive and contentious one – whether that rating is a single-digit one for Flatties, or something higher for jumpers.
A pleasure as always to maintain a robust but civil degree of debate on the forum.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
GC,
I think you’re losing your touch – it took you nearly two whole pages on this thread before you could find a reason to mention Cartmel, Fakenham or Quixall Crossett!
Think of it as a form of Tourette’s.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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