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Will a horse win an English Triple Crown again?

Home Forums Horse Racing Will a horse win an English Triple Crown again?

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  • #4804
    Young Mick
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    • Total Posts 203

    I was thinking the other day of the hype the Americans put behind their triple crown and it also made me think, would a horse try to do it in England beause they would normally go for the Arc instead. I couldn’t have seen Sir Percy entering the St Leger if he would have done the Guineas Derby double.

    I couldn’t see Teofilo heading that route either although bookies were offering terrible prices for it. In my opinion the St Leger has dropped below the other two classics and it seems as though it has become the race for the horses who finished nowhere in the derby.

    What are your opinions?

    #110597
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    Takes a special horse to be champion 3-y-o over distances as divers as the Guineas and St. Leger.

    I believe the American Triple Crown is two ver 10f. and over 12f.not such a test of flexibility of distance.

    #110598
    Mr Frisk
    Participant
    • Total Posts 163

    The Preakness is a mile and an eighth, so they have to drop back from 10f and then go up to 12f.

    #110600
    Gareth Flynn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 583

    And they have only around a month to do it in the States.

    It hasn’t been done there since ’78, but they still give it their best shot year after year.

    #110620
    Cruella
    Member
    • Total Posts 108

    Stamina is becoming such a dirty word that even if a horse had the ability to do so, it would be perceived as commercial suicide. After all, why risk your Guineas-and-Derby-winning stud prospect being labelled ‘slow’ by winning the St Leger, when you can send it to Longchamp and…well, get beaten by some late-progressing French thing, probably, but you can always blame that on yours having too much speed for a truly-run mile-and-a-half…

    #110624
    madman marz
    Member
    • Total Posts 707

    The Preakness is a mile and an eighth, so they have to drop back from 10f and then go up to 12f.

    1& 3/16 the preakness

    #110625
    madman marz
    Member
    • Total Posts 707

    I was thinking the other day of the hype the Americans put behind their triple crown and it also made me think, would a horse try to do it in England beause they would normally go for the Arc instead. I couldn’t have seen Sir Percy entering the St Leger if he would have done the Guineas Derby double.

    I couldn’t see Teofilo heading that route either although bookies were offering terrible prices for it. In my opinion the St Leger has dropped below the other two classics and it seems as though it has become the race for the horses who finished nowhere in the derby.

    What are your opinions?

    Yeh but there is a good chance you and me will be pushing up daisys before it happens. Unless you get cremated and are thrown to the wind and rain.

    #110633
    Mr Frisk
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    • Total Posts 163

    The Preakness is a mile and an eighth, so they have to drop back from 10f and then go up to 12f.

    1& 3/16 the preakness

    Fair point, but only for the last 82 years. Before that, it was 1 and 1/8.

    #110635
    madman marz
    Member
    • Total Posts 707

    The Preakness is a mile and an eighth, so they have to drop back from 10f and then go up to 12f.

    1& 3/16 the preakness

    Fair point, but only for the last 82 years. Before that, it was 1 and 1/8.

    Yeh frisky, very little of a difference either ways, not worth getting bogged down over, just thought I would mention it.

    #110648
    Mr Frisk
    Participant
    • Total Posts 163

    110 yards is a fair old difference, to be fair. Thanks for pointing it out, it’s odd how you can get things into your head that are so thoroughly wrong.

    #110663
    Aragorn
    Member
    • Total Posts 2208

    Stamina is becoming such a dirty word that even if a horse had the ability to do so, it would be perceived as commercial suicide. After all, why risk your Guineas-and-Derby-winning stud prospect being labelled ‘slow’ by winning the St Leger, when you can send it to Longchamp and…well, get beaten by some late-progressing French thing, probably, but you can always blame that on yours having too much speed for a truly-run mile-and-a-half…

    A horse that had already won a guineas and Derby would not be known as slow. Thats guaranteed. Winners of a leger and nothing else may be considered slow, not triple crown winners.

    #110666
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    In answer to the subject question then I would have to say it is a resoundng NO! Well not in my lifetime anyway, and I am only 34 lol.

    I doubt that there are many horse in training at any level that have won over a mile, 12 furlong and 14 furlong – so to get a horse to do it at the very highest grade, while only having one shot at it, against the very best of the same age group – I would say is almost impossible.

    I also doubt very much that many horses would ever be aimed at this triple crown because as soon as you win The Derby, the usual thoughts are towards The Arc if the horse has done well in either the The King George or The Eclipse.

    So I will ask another question. Is it more likely that a horse will win The Guineas, The Derby/Oaks and The Arc than what is known as the English Triple Crown, and if so, can this be seen as a Triple Crown itself, albeit being an English/French one lol.

    Mike

    #110674
    Mr Frisk
    Participant
    • Total Posts 163

    A Triple Crown really needs three distances. The Guineas, Derby and Irish Champion would be a better one if you are going to go beyond national boundaries (and why not, it’s an international business these days, after all).

    The original Triple Crown was designed for a different age and its time has gone. There are still enough people around in racing who were born into that age to keep arguing and hoping that it should be the ultimate aim of all owners, but the simple fact is that it has had its day.

    #110676
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3772

    Tony Morris, when commenting on the great Nijinsky’s career, said that pigs would fly before another champion 2 year old would win the English Triple Crown.

    He may just be right.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #110680
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5124

    to get a horse to do it at the very highest grade, while only having one shot at it, against the very best of the same age group – I would say is almost impossible.

    Considering that the (colts) triple crown has only been accomplished twice since 1918 (’35 ’70) but thirteen times prior to then – including thrice during the first world war alone – would suggest it was in some respects a lack of alternative races to contest rather than being the ‘crown’ all strived for.

    Even ignoring the (dubious) fad of ‘breeding for speed’ which may make the Leger an unattractive target, the increasing internationalism of racing at the top level allied to the growth of the European Pattern over recent decades surely means that running in, let alone winning, the admittedly historic and euphonious ‘Triple Crown’ races becomes ever more unlikely.

    Wikipedia relates that no Derby winner since Reference Point in ’87 has even been entered for the Leger which, if true, says it all really.

    Personally I love the Leger and would relish seeing the triple crown attempted and won again but if it is it would more than likely be with a horse owned by a ‘romantic’ small time owner akin to those of Sir Percy’s rather than the big business orientated breeding conglomerates.

    Gallant sport?

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