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What is it about Newcastle United fans (and a lot of the UK media) that make them think they have ever been a truly successful football power in modern times?
They have won 4, yes, 4 league titles. The last one came in 1926/7!
Sunderland have won 6 in total, the last one coming in 1936!
Ok, they won 3 FA Cups in the 1950’s, but that hardly constitutes greatness.
And a quick look at the list of UEAF/Fairs Cup winners puts them on a par with the likes of Dinamo Zagreb, Real Zaragoza, Ipswich Town, IFK Goteborg, Eintracht Frankfurt, Parma, and Napoli – fairly average clubs with UEFA Cup wins to their name.
So there is no real basis for the assumption that NUFC have a divine right to dine at the Premiership’s top table. The constant talk about the passion of the supporters belies the fact that the home gate for the game immediately prior to Keegan’s first stint as manager was 15,000.
I am staggered any manager would want to go there and put up with the unrealistic expectations of a fan base who seem to have little knowledge of their own club’s history. They claim to have been starved of success for too long – the problem is they have never had anything other than average success in their entire history.
As a Sunderland fan I suggest Sunderland’s claim to have a right to top flight success is not less valid than Newcastle’s – if anything it is more so, their last major trophy coming since NUFC’s 1969 Fair’s Cup triumph.
The NUFC faithful are simply making a complete show of themselves. How they had the audacity to hound out Allardyce (as much as I personally loath the man) after only 4 months of the season is staggering.
A club that is so impatient for success, even though their record of success is so stunningly average, will never get success.
Certainly argued with passion Chateauonline.
I agree. Perhaps only relegation will bring the Geordies into the real world.
I’ll shed no tears for a club that doesn’t understand that it normally ( okay there are exceptions) takes time for a manager to build a "great" team – certainly not 6 months.Good write up chateau and I would expect nothing less from a Sunderland supporter when discussing Newcastle Utd
As a neutral, I consider Newcastle to be a bigger club than Sunderland because they have been in the Premiership longer. I do think though that the Sunderland fans have a bigger grip on reality than the Newcastle ones and the most sporting and best behaved fans ( of the bigger clubs ) that I have ever met are the Sunderland ones.
I like the passion that the Newcastle fans show towards their team and I think that Big Sam was hounded out because of the style of football that he encouraged. Newcastle fans want to see the game played in attractive exciting way.
Do the Newcastle fans or the media really think that Newcastle have ever been a truly successful football power in modern times? I think not but they are considered a club with great potential because of their fan base.
One problem that Newcastle have experienced in the last few years is mismanagement……..Freddy Shepherd !! No club can succeed with this problem.
As a neutral I want Kevin to bring success to his club and see their exciting style of play again and if they are successful then at least I will hear a great atmosphere at their ground which is sadly missing from the ones at a lot of the leading clubs presently.
Pete
Yes, well argued Chateau and you make some good points.
Most has been said already, but I totally agree that at the moment Newcastle don’t deserve a thing – I have no sympathy for a club that constantly sacks manager after manager simply because the club is not in the top six by Christmas.
Mike
ps: The gate was over 35,000 for the game you were referring to – it’s important you get these things correct otherwise the Geordies will take you to task over it lol.
Hi Mikky,
According to my stats NUFCs average home gate the season Keegan joined as Manager 1992 was 21012!!! Still a far cry from what it is today!
Hi Mikky,
According to my stats NUFCs average home gate the season Keegan joined as Manager 1992 was 21012!!! Still a far cry from what it is today!
My apologies, I totally misread what you had wrote. For some stupid reason, I thought you said the game immediately before he re-joined them (the match against Stoke last week), hence why I quoted 35,000
I’m sorry
Mike
No worries Mikky – and if you go back to his arrival as a player back in 1982, average home gates were 17,276!!!
So not only are they deluding themselves that they have some sort of right to occupy a top 3 position, they are also deluding themselves that their support is as passionate as some parts of the media think.
The true test of a club’s support is when they are relegated. Man Utd passed the test it in the mid-70’s. Leeds are at present. I also feel the West Ham support are also loyal in times of lower division football.
Newcastle remind me of Chelsea. Now they have money they make out they are a "big" club with a big history. However until Mourinho joined Chelsea’s silverware gains were almost as sparse as those of Newcastle. In 1989 their average home gate in Div 2 was 15,957. In 1983 it was as low as 12,672 (the time when Ken Bates famously bought them for £1).
As a Sunderland fan I also know that my club are often put on a pedastal. This is due to their "Bank of England" tag in the 1950s, and the big home gates they attracted during the 1973 Cup run. I dont put Sunderland up as any more worthy of a Top 3 position than Newcastle. In fact both clubs need to get a grip. Sunderland should never have sacked Reid, and have been almost as adept as Newcastle in sacking managers without giving them a chance to build a long lasting player infrastructure.
chateau – Chelsea were for many years the best-supported club in England, till Man Utd overtook them around 1960.
Sunderland in 1936 were the last team to win the league wearing striped kit.
up until roman bought chelsea a couple of league titles they hadn’t won for half a century which puts them in the same bracket as blackburn imo, rich man buying a title or two for his team don’t make that team posess the pedigree of a top club – arsenal, man u or liverpool. in that respect chelsea were like newcastle, with some die hard fans but no success – kind of like charlton
still, other than go to the pub or listen to the wind there’s not a lot else to do in newcastle
Some total **** here
Since when has a club got to have "pedigree" to become successful?
There are a good number of clubs within England that could maintain big gates and big support with the right backing. And Chelsea are one of them..
The idea that the "elite" is set in stone forever more is laughable.
Football is a very strange sport at times. It seems obsessed with almost maintianing a sort of class structure where each club knows its place. You here this over and over again and I well recall it when Blackburn "bought" the title (unlike Man utd or Liverpool of course)
newcastle could be one of those clubs but so long as they keep believing that they are "special" and all they require is a tub thumping messiah who hasnt watched a game for three years, they will get absolutely nowhere
of course the elite are set in stone, that’s what makes them the elite – decades and decades and a lifetime of success at the top – that sort of pedigree can’t be bought like a piece of pikey gold from a bloke round the back of the pub
i agree though that pedigree isn’t needed to win as blackburn and chelsea showed when buying the title, which also proved that winning doesn’t bring pedigree either – unless it’s over a sustained and lengthy period
newcastle can have big crowds, good for them, all it means is that there will be more northeners wearing black and white stripey shirts spending half their weeks wages being disappointed whilst trying to catch pneumonia watching a bunch of prima donnas with attitude problems not win anything
So spending money on players is ok if its Arsenal Man Utd and Liverpool , but no one else then?
Newcastle, Man city, Villa and Chelsea should know their place should they?
What complete crap
I wouldnt say we are deluded, im personally not deluded in the slightest as a Newcastle fan.
Some people are impatient and want success yesterday, and i agree that more patience should be shown, but we get slated for having passion and pride about our team, which should not happen at all.
We wouldnt have had to go through half as many managers as we have done in the past few years if we had replaced Bobby Robson with the right candidate at the time.
It will take a lot of hard work for Kevin Keegan to get us back to where he had us before, but he will have the backing of the board, money and also the fans. We’re not deluded, i dont expect a trophy anytime soon, i just want to see decent football being played and actually have our players performing to somewhere near their maximum abilities.
I think the assumption Gaz is that you have no right to aim for the top because you are not one of the established "elite"
Having said that, all the requirements you mention are not Keegans strengths are they? Patience is required…but he doesnt show that. Nor does he seem to relish long term planning
I think hes a shocking appointment myself.
Clive, he wasnt really the first choice for me either to be honest, seemed too much of a fairytale i have to say. However, i think he will get time, more so than any other appointment will get, that is for sure.
The other candidates for the job didnt really excite to be honest, and i would much rather have someone in charge that loves the club, knows what is expected and knows how to get the players playing to their potential and maximum abilities.
Look at Everton and Moyes, he has taken them to new heights in the Premier League, and they are now a well established club and rightfully so.
I agree with your point about no right to aim for the top simply because we have not been in the Top 4 or 5 for a few seasons, that does seem to be the main point.
Moyes was at Preston (doing a good job…remeber them at the Bridge in the cup) before Everton. And who was Wenger ?
Good managers are out there but the lazy option (souness) has often been the Newcastle way
Newcastles biggest asset should be in its local popualtion. Not the support…but the talent
Apart from the Essex/east london area, no where in the British isles has so regularly produced natural talent over the years
Were you also unimpressed by the drivel Keegan was spouting about Owen and Shearer over the weekend?
Agree with you Clive. Souness, Roeder and Allardyce shouldnt have been appointed, they were never the right people for the job, and it was a rushed decision everytime from Shepherd.
I think it was a great move by Keegan to make Owen captain, put a stop to the rumours about their ‘problems’ and could make Owen a Toon legend in years to come as a result.
Im not sure what exactly you are relating to in terms of things said about Shearer.
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