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If you a young bought a horse to go Jumping which trainer/s would you put it with….not a Kauto Star just an ordinary first buy. PLus who would be your sub if you couldn’t get the horse placed with your first choice,
MY own would be a easy choice for me and I would go for a smaller yard
I would head straight to Irishman John Quinn’s yard in Settrington near Malton.
A small trainer with limited facilities but 100% genuine and committed to his job. He has a great eye for a good horse and would be confident of even asking him to buy a horse for me as well as train it.
He was also, while not in say Jonjo’s class, a very good jockey which to me is all important when choosing a trainer. I think there is an advantage having someone who has actually ridden in races.
He having less horses has plenty of time for his owners and a is straight talker. More inclined to be told the truth than get some of the BS fed to owners by trainers.
The yard while small is in a lovely setting and very peaceful. It’s also nice and close to some great gallops.
Sub: for me would be Nicky Henderson simply because I admire the man and is great with young horses……..big yard I know but very nice honest guy.
If you a young bought a horse to go Jumping which trainer/s would you put it with….not a Kauto Star just an ordinary first buy. PLus who would be your sub if you couldn’t get the horse placed with your first choice,
MY own would be a easy choice for me and I would go for a smaller yard
I would head straight to Irishman John Quinn’s yard in Settrington near Malton.
A small trainer with limited facilities but 100% genuine and committed to his job. He has a great eye for a good horse and would be confident of even asking him to buy a horse for me as well as train it.
He was also, while not in say Jonjo’s class, a very good jockey which to me is all important when choosing a trainer. I think there is an advantage having someone who has actually ridden in races.
He having less horses has plenty of time for his owners and a is straight talker. More inclined to be told the truth than get some of the BS fed to owners by trainers.
The yard while small is in a lovely setting and very peaceful. It’s also nice and close to some great gallops.
Sub: for me would be Nicky Henderson simply because I admire the man and is great with young horses……..big yard I know but very nice honest guy.
Great choices FoF, I might reverse them though.
Henderson makes me laugh as I can’t watch him without thinking of Basil Brush
Let’s not mess about here: Paul Nicholls !
if only I could afford the fees, and the horse.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Think i would have to agree with UM and say Alan King for first choice.
As for second choice, i’d probably say Peter Bowen. He comes across as a really down to earth guy and i have to support my fellow Welshies of course.
Highly unoriginal but of all the top trainers I’d be for Paul Nicholls or Alan King. As well as having a great deal of skill as trainers, both also seem to be very honest and open about their charges, something I’d look for if I were ‘fortunate’ (rich) enough to be able to own a horse.
So watch out for P HENDERSON, I reckon he’ll have had a few inquiries this last week!
Quite possibly so, but I’m pretty sure Paul Henderson (for it is he) would need to have a request for a full license granted by the powers that be first of all – if indeed he wants one – before he can deprive you of your hard-earned in training fees.
Permit-holder Paul is 31 runners and 21 months into his Rules career, and Lidjo’s two recent wins comprise his only two successes to date. Clearly they won’t have done his prospects any harm if he does decide to go public, though.
I’m not sure how many winners a permit-holder has to train nowadays before being allowed to apply, or whether it’s simply a case of exhibiting enough talent at a credible level. Dr Newland had no bother getting a public license last Spring, of course, but I think I remember reading that Tony Middleton has been informed that Mossman Gorge’s win at Wincanton on Boxing Day (the Buckinghamshire handler’s first) does not count as a compelling enough argument for him to get one yet.
Mind, hope springs eternal – they gave Clarissa Caroe a full license in the end, after all…
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I would ask Alan Swinbank to buy me a mulish, lout of a horse for a bargain-basement sum, and then ask him to transform it into a multiple-race-winner for me.
As subs, I’d have Malcolm Jefferson in the North, and the aforementioned NJ Henderson in the South.
When I’m ill-makingly rich in the future (er….
) I’ll be sending mine to Alan King, Noel Meade and Nicky Henderson.Honest.
More chance of me becoming Mrs Frank Lampard, and unfortunately that’s beyond ridiculous as well
Sigh.
I’ve only met Nicky Henderson once – on a plane back from Paris – and he came across as a thoroughly nice bloke. How much of this was down to the copious amounts of Champagne he’d probably had I don’t know, but he’d have to be high on any list of potential trainers – as would Hughie Morrison, John Quinn, Robert Alner and Tom George.
I’m ‘less of a fan’ of the likes of Alan King, so certainly wouldn’t mind chaning my arm across the Irish Sea with the likes of Dessie Hughes or Noel Meade.
GC, i’m intrigued by this. What exaclty does having a license that is’nt "full" mean for a trainer? Can he only have so many runners a year, or something like that? i know you said your not 100% on one aspect of it but basically have you any sort of idea or does any one else know what the difference is between permit holder and full licensed member, and what the difference is in terms of what a trainer can do.
thanks in advance.
In its simplest terms, a permit-holder may only train horses for himself and his immediate family, and only over jumps at that.
Within those parameters, there is no extra impediment to the sort of race a permit-holder may enter a horse in compared to full license holders, barring the usual ones (i.e not in hunters’ chases if the horse ran after October 31st the same season).
Nor is there any numeric limit to how often a permit-holder may send out horses in a season. Norman Mason was champion permit-holder for several years running in the late 1990s / early noughties, saddling 208, 235, 238 and 278 runners in the seasons 1998-9 through to 2001-2.
Dr Richard Newland absolutely striped the permit-holder’s championship (such as it exists) last season, though as discussed he is now a public trainer with a full license.
Current permit-holders (of the literally hundreds there are still registered out there, though not all of them necessarily active at present) you may have heard of include;
Nick Alexander (Fearless Foursome)
Alan Blackmore (Cool Roxy)
Roger Brookhouse (Leo’s Luckyman, Salt Cellar)
Ted Caine (Quixall Crossett, Monaughty Man)
Oliver Carter (Venn Ottery, Otter Way, Ottery News)
John Dixon (Jumbo’s Dream, Crofton Arch)
Jo Fierro (Silver Gift, Just Beth)
Donald Forster (Ossmoses, Kid Smartie)
Sirrel Griffiths (Norton’s Coin, Tirikumba)
Ann Hamilton (Divet Hill)
Susan Handley (Papillon de Iena)
Richard Harper (Wot No Cash, Masterpoint)
Jonathan Haynes (Silver Dagger)
Richard Hewitt (Curly Spencer)
Martin Hogan (Beare Necessities)
Harry Hogarth (King Killone, Red Rampage)
Paul Jones (Stripe Me Blue)
Peter Kelsall (Rufius)
Fred Kirby (Sound of Cheers, Forest Dante)
Peter Maddison (Lothian Falcon)
Robin Mathew (Heartache)
Tony Middleton (Mossman Gorge, Tooka)
John Needham (Another Joker)
Rayson Nixon (Political Tower, Hush Tiger)
Susan Nock (Senor El Betrutti, Demasta)
John Payne (Athnowen, Wimbleball)
Pip Payne (Oakfield Legend)
Stewart Pike (Proud Sun, Sovietica)
Charles Pogson (Lord Baskerville, Bronson F’Sure)
Jill Scrase (Neltina)
Evelyn Slack (Mighty Fine, Barney, Cash Man)
Keith Thomas (Northern Echo)
Ailie Tulllie (More Flair)
Robert Waley-Cohen (Katarino, Bica, Irilut)
Jimmy Walton (Posh Stick, Garden Feature)
Arthur Whiting (Hazeljack, Apple John)
Willie Young (Roadworthy, Son of Snurge)This represents a bit of a brain-dump, admittedly.
The highest-profile permit-trained winners of races in my lifetime of racing would include Red Marauder and Grittar in the Grand National, and Norton’s Coin in the Gold Cup, though I’m sure I’d recall more if I gave it a few more minutes’ thought.
I trust this is of help.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
i would give brendan powell a go , smallish stable, not a big gambling yard.
Eh??!!!???!!!
Not a gambling yard? Where’d you get that idea from?!?!
Thats very interesting Jeremy, sounds like a law imposed by King John to me. Sounds like the financial implications are a bit harsh, as you can’t have a steady income from owners unless your in the game for “real” as it were.
To a certain extent there is that historical element of many permit-holders training racehorses as a second income, or in many cases more realistically only as a loss-making hobby. Quite a few of those listed above are farmers, farriers, huntsmen, etc. first and trainers second, and enter the game on the understanding that, barring the odd miracle like a Grand National win, racing will never put that much bread on the table.
With some the lines do become blurred after a while, though. The success of the aforementioned Norman Mason’s training operation ultimately became inversely proportionate to that of his amusement arcade and bingo hall company, which went into administration. Others manage to uphold the two strands of their lives far less chaotically – Ian McMath and Sharon Watt were permit-trainers until comparatively recently, and as far as I’m aware their respective double glazing and fence-building businesses continue to prosper.
ps,Just tring to make a case for the fella. Do you know how old he is Jeremy? If he was relatively young that would be a plus aswell. (the trainer that is)
Can’t help you with that one, alas, though I’ve been aware of Paul Henderson under Rules pretty much from the get-go when he sent out Schemer Fagan at one of the Sussex tracks in Spring 2006. I suppose if he chalked up a couple more wins and enough pressure was brought to bear by interested local owners he may start to cave in and apply for a full license, but I’ve heard nothing to date to suggest he’s about to try.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
) I’ll be sending mine to Alan King, Noel Meade and Nicky Henderson.
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