January 16, 2007 at 00:09 #701
IE: entries, race results, breeding information etc
(Edited by empty wallet at 12:11 am on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 07:38 #35905witParticipant
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An owner is a person who has property.
Property is the exclusive right at law to possess, use and dispose of a thing (tangible or intangible, visible or invisible, real or personal).
A fact is a state of things or an event.
There is no exclusive right in the fact that horse Z is entered in a race, or that he wins that race, or that his mother is X and his father is Y.
But if you invest time and/or money collecting facts together and/or verifying them, then you can claim an exclusive right – ie property – in your collection, or database. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â You can then stop others from using your collection.
What was decided in William Hill v BHB was that drawing up a list of horses in a race was something separate from collecting and verifying the contents of the database from which that list was drawn. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
"The list is different in character from a mere list of the gathered-in information. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â It is a list of the horses the BHB have accepted as qualifying to race… [ie a newly-occurred fact]"
(Edited by wit at 7:58 am on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 11:44 #35906
<br>never read what the Will Hills case was about at the time it was going off
<br>I’m just trying to figure out why the racing industry does not make more use selling racing info directly to the general public to create revenue
IE: sectional time info, horse weight etc
<br>I know it takes investment, but surely long term these things would reap rewards
(Edited by empty wallet at 11:47 am on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 12:10 #35907robert99Participant
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See the last page of the Horse Body Weights thread.<br>The industry seems to be just sleepwalking through possible revenue sources. There seems to be no one to set a lead and make things happen.January 16, 2007 at 12:31 #35908
Quote: from robert99 on 12:10 pm on Jan. 16, 2007[br].<br>The industry seems to be just sleepwalking through possible revenue sources. There seems to be no one to set a lead and make things happen.
<br>read it elsewhere robert ;) on reading it and the above is mainly why i started this thread
Just can’t understand why the powers that be are not using the data punters are chasing to create a revenue stream
(Edited by empty wallet at 12:36 pm on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 12:43 #35909davidjohnsonMember
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(Edited by davidjohnson at 12:44 pm on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 13:49 #35910
To try and cut a very long story short, racing has been down this path before. The BHB decided that selling data rights to bookmakers was the way to fund racing and campaigned to abolish the Levy. The Government agreed to do so and the BHB sought to extract money from bookmakers in the UK and overseas in return for a licence of data rights. that led to the William Hill case which said that the BHB didn’t have any rights in the data to sell. As a result, racing ended up campaigning for the Levy to stay and, just before Christmas, the Government agreed to thisJanuary 16, 2007 at 13:55 #35911
What i’m talking about is the racing industry selling it’s info directly to punters not bookies or to be creamed off by a 3rd party
(Edited by empty wallet at 1:58 pm on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 14:43 #35912
OK there are 2 reasons (at least) why that wouldn’t work. (1) If punters had to pay for racing data, it would mean that a proportion would instead choose to bet on things other than racing – so a counterproductive route for racing to take (2) racing probably can’t control access to race data either practically (because there’s always going to be someone (probably an offshore site) that will obtain the data and make it available for free); and legally (because of anti-monopoly laws – see another case Attheraces v BHB).January 16, 2007 at 14:48 #35913
I think (might be wrong) that a lot of punters would pay for the right info, just look at Timeform, Raceform etc
2, the legal stuff is beyond me tbhJanuary 16, 2007 at 15:12 #35914
Yes some people will pay for Timeform (now owned by Betfair) and Raceform (owned by the Racing Post) but it’s not racing that owns that data and the amounts punters pay for this information is a tiny fraction of racing’s funding needsJanuary 16, 2007 at 15:31 #35915
Just seems to me something very wrong when an industry has to rely on handouts from another industry
Surely something can be done, clean up the sport to attract more sponsors, put up entry fees, charge for info where you can etc
Why not invest in sectional timing equipment and sell that data, why not invest in weighing horses and sell that data, add the Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£5 back on to my RUK subs so i can view replays
<br>Trouble is racing in cohoots with others want to take punters for all they’ve got and people like me who would be willing to pay, won’t stand being shafted
(Edited by empty wallet at 3:39 pm on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 15:45 #35916
I can go to site like DRF, pay for PDF Past Performances etc and get all the info i need
I am betting more and more on US racing because of this, i would also bet more on racing in HK if racing was shown on tv and markets were availble for the same reason
<br>Racing is losing it’s customers in part due to lack of info
(Edited by empty wallet at 3:47 pm on Jan. 16, 2007)January 16, 2007 at 23:16 #35917racinggirlukMember
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There is free info on the net, you just got to look for it…they mainly advertise the ones you need to pay forJanuary 17, 2007 at 06:24 #35918SeagullMember
- Total Posts 1708
Weatherbys have built up a massive database regards breeding and they i.m.o. should be able to charge for this information.
The on course bookie chappies were thinking of trying to charge for the actual starting prices as they thought as they were the ones that actually decided and marked up what they were that they owned a copyright to them.
As to such things as results and stats companies such as RSB and Raceform claim a copyright as they compiled them.
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