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I think the rules do not go far enough and agree with John Francome that jockeys skill would be better tested and it would be fairer to the horse all round if sticks were carried but not used.
Having had horses all my life I can tell you that any blow to a horse of any kind at high speed, especially which a bendy stick, depsite claims about padding and wide surface, will hurt a horse. If the horse did not feel it then why use the stick at all? The argument that some people have made over the lack of marking is a false one. Just because a child has no bruises does that mean he has not been hurt by a blow?
I am no animal rights activist, I have competed in 3 day eventing to a high level and had to use a stick many times as a correctional tool. I emphasize that it is used only to train the horse, not to make it go faster or perform to a higher level, merely to make it more obedient by learning when it has been disobedient. When i ride a horse round a cross country course the last thing I would do is start hitting it if it was tiring towards the end.
In terms of Richard Hughes argument that he was using the whip to correct a horse lugging left or right I would contend that this argument has more legitimacy than purely attempting to make it run faster. Horses will often behave in this way if they are inexperienced or quirky and it is sometimes hard with the use of the reins only to force the horse to take a true path. In my opinion what is more effective than hitting them is to put the stick into the forehand position and run it up and down past the eye of the horse. This has in my experience worked very well in encouraging a horse on the gallops to stay straight and I have seen many jockeys employ this technique on the racetrack. It gives the horse something to focus his eye on and move away from. In any event blinkers could be another alternative.
In conclusion, the new rules were an inevitability given the public furor over a few high profile incidents this season, including the Grand National and Rewilding’s Prince of Wales win. Some jockeys may argue they are convoluted and over-complicated but if a human being cannot count up to 7 or 8 in his head then one ought to be feasibly concerned over his mental competence to control a half ton animal in any event! The stringency of the new penalties will, I hope, encourage jockeys to err on the side of caution in administering the maximum number of blows.
Of Keiran Fox, he had cogently been explained the new rules and chose to act with complete apathy to the threat of more severe sanctions. His penalty was fully justified, and the severity will I hope encourage him to approach the new rules with more respect in the future.
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The stringency of the new penalties will, I hope, encourage jockeys to err on the side of caution in administering the maximum number of blows.
We saws that in the race at Yarmouth, where to my eyes the horse given his five beat the horse only given his four by a narrow margin. Do you think that is fair?
Admiral
, if watching racing (and indeed riding in it) is to be reduced to counting the number of strokes, does that not strike you as an impoverishment of a noble pursuit?
Pinza – the "impoverishment of a noble pursuit" is to win by brute force and infliction of discomfort rather than with a genuine and heartfelt desire to win or by the superiority of athletic ability.
I believe we do these animals a disservice to make them run until their lungs are fit to burst, and then to beat them when they tire. Nothing is in my opinion more ignoble.
I am sure I was not alone in my abject horror at the leniency of the penalty sustained by Mr Dettori after his patent abuse of Rewilding. I heard the figure 24 blows in the last couple of furlongs. I do not doubt that many would argue he made the maximum effort to win that race, but at what cost? The cost is that the horse which may have otherwise won by virtue of his superior ability, was forced across the line first by persistent infliction of discomfort. The result for the spectator is that he is left wondering whether the horse really was better or simply reacted more sensitively to the blows.
The new rules are convoluted, and although a step in the right direction, I would reinforce what John Francome has said – that contact of the whip ought to be abolished completely.
A mate of mine was talking to a current jockey earlier and this was his thoughts….
"I think your right though the sport will suffer because finishes will be less interesting and punters will be so annoyed when their horses get beat!.. The feeling in the weighing room is exactly the same.. No ones happy and I think there’s going to be a big argument between the BHA and the jocks"..
I believe 100% that jockeys riding a finish should be allowed to use
Their Judgement
,not that of someone else in deciding as to how frequent,how hard and as to whereabouts they hit the horse in order to win,if Ruby hit Denman 13 times to win the Hennessey then thats his decision,that guy has been brought up riding horses all his life,he knows what effect the latest whips have on horses like all jockeys do,i have 2 whips in my collection one from Steve Cauthen and one from Hayley,they are nothing like each other and yet Cauthens whip just like those used by racing legends Piggott,Eddery and Carson never killed a horse in 50yrs.This latest ruling is pure nonsense and as today has shown already Jockeys know better than anyone,Kierans win at all cost attitude as you put it was nothing of the sort,the horse will sleep well tonight i’m sure of it.
What bothers me way more than so called whip abuse is Non-tryers
and yet this rule has opened the floodgates for it to happen even more,jockeys can use up their allowance early on for ‘corrective’measures then say i had used my 7 strikes up so could only ride a hands and heels finish. I like any horse lover does not want to see a horse that is well beaten being whipped either,there is no reason for that whatsoever but thats not the issue here,its whats going on at the head of affairs.Your wording of winning at all costs may include dangerous ridng and thankfully i give jockeys more credit than that.its dangerous enough without going to extreme.These new rules will be amended before Xmas,no question.No doubt Gord, you include Jamie Spencer as knowing how to use the whip better than these rule makers. So should his ride on Cape Blanco be acceptable in this country?
If so, I am glad you’re not in control. For all the nonsense about these new rules driving punters away… I’d find your and Pinza’s rules unacceptable and have to leave this wonderful sport. I’d also suggest it would put off many potential new racing enthusiasts.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
I believe we do these animals a disservice to make them run until their lungs are fit to burst, and then to beat them when they tire. Nothing is in my opinion more ignoble.
Admiral
, I confess I am depressed by your words. With friends like you Racing hardly seems to need enemies. I respectfully suggest you might like to find another pursuit which will offend you less. This one is called Horse
Racing
. And you might have your mind put at ease by a reading of the
BHA Whip Review
itself, which scientifically refutes any claims of cruelty
in the rules as they stood before today
.
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For all the nonsense about these new rules driving punters away… I’d find your and Pinza’s rules unacceptable and have to leave this wonderful sport. I’d also suggest it would put off many potential new racing enthusiasts.
Ginger
, you managed I am quite sure perfectly happily a very few years ago, before these controversial clauses about the Stipulated Number of Strokes came along to blight all our lives. The evidence from abroad (as well as here) is that the sight of flailing whips adds to people’s sense of excitement, and makes people more likely to believe everyone’s trying hard, without damaging the horses (physically or psychologically) in the least.
(Nobody is suggesting bringing back the old whip, or spurs, or introducing electric shock devices.)
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FYI, a random sample of
Vox Pop
from the Racing Post website, in response to today’s bans at Salisbury:
You are going to see big owners sending more horses to France and USA and Ireland where the prize money is better and the horses run to there full ability.
11:35pm – 10 Oct 11I think the new wip rule is bad news 4 UK racing . Your going to see more UK based jockeys taking the Alan Munro route. Owners who spend large amounts of money on horses will not be happy seeing their horse loose a Group race for lack of the extra slap.
11:33pm – 10 Oct 11They must go ON STRIKE. Shut racing down and the BHA will be ordered by their paymasters viz; the bookmakers to quickly reveres this crazy rule
11:30pm – 10 Oct 11BHA should be banned for life. They’re ruining the sport.
11:30pm – 10 Oct 11Welcome aboard the human reality express, where people with no knowledge about a subject can shape the lives of those who embrace it.
11:29pm – 10 Oct 11
Madness… at this rate will we have enough jockeys left to ride . It is going to cause an accident sooner or later then what ?
11:18pm – 10 Oct 11How will this new rule affect Virtual Racing? I’ve seen some of those jocks whack those poor animals way over 7 times!
11:08pm – 10 Oct 11Just watched race. Fox hit horse 11 times in LAST 2 FUR. if he’d settled it earlier prob. no need. Hughsie is senior jock with deplorable disciplinary record, no sympathy. Orthodox Lad should have been disqual. or rule is useless. Jocks NEED to adapt.
10:57pm – 10 Oct 11Can anyone tell me who the BHA answers to, if the answer is nobody, then they are just like the old Jockey club, except those old guys had more class than the clowns running the show now.
10:56pm – 10 Oct 11Kieren Fox, you did your job, you won the race.
Good on you!!!!
10:56pm – 10 Oct 11This level and anger of response ought to give everyone, for or against the new rule, considerable pause for thought.
Or do you agree that there needs to be a limit placed on whip usage to protect racehorses?
3. There is no scientific support to say that one stroke, five strokes, ten strokes or
twenty strokes
with this safety whip inflicts pain on racehorses.
There does
not
need to be a limit to the number of strokes.
The current limits create bad PR, bad law and bad science. They need to be removed.
Perhaps Pinza, in the late seventies (when I became interested in racing) I had different opinions. But I also thought nothing of what I’d now see as a racist or sexist "joke", things have changed.
If under your rules jockeys are allowed 20 strokes (or possibly more) then I’d want no part in this sport.Value Is EverythingThe evidence from abroad (as well as here) is that the sight of flailing whips adds to people’s sense of excitement, and makes people more likely to believe everyone’s trying hard, without damaging the horses (physically or psychologically) in the least.
(Nobody is suggesting bringing back the old whip, or spurs, or introducing electric shock devices.)
Did you really find nothing wrong with Jamie Spencer’s ride of Cape Blanco Pinza?
Value Is EverythingPinza – you have done me a disservice. Racing horses in no way offends me, if it did then the necessary conclusion would be that all forms of horse riding offend me. I already informed you that I am an experienced horsewoman who has on many occasions resorted to using a whip for correctional purposes. In fact I would go so far as to say the whip is an extremely useful and necessary tool if one is to ride horses at a high level. Can you please explain why would I consider its’ use unacceptably cruel and and yet concurrently advocate and participate in its’ use?
Where I think whip use needs to be tempered is in its application towards to conclusion of a race which it can be assumed is with the express purpose of urging the horse faster. When a horse is tiring, why not let his raw ability guide him across the line first, for surely that is a truer test of greatness than a victory coerced out of excessive whip use?
GC,my point is the likes of Timeform shouldn’t have to be adapting their comments in running to accomodate what will prove to be a vague description of events rather than an exact analysis of a race.
I don’t follow, I’m afraid – I’m not sure how rating / commenting on the scenario I portrayed would be any less exact than, say, according a Timeform plus, a "better than the bare result" note, etc., to an animal that had encountered traffic problems, been brought to a standstill by a loose horse, or whatever else.
The write-up would still make it apparent they finished as close as they were entitled to in the prevailing circumstances, and the plus sign that better still could well have been achieved.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I am no animal rights activist, I have competed in 3 day eventing to a high level and had to use a stick many times as a correctional tool. I emphasize that it is used only to train the horse, not to make it go faster or perform to a higher level, merely to make it more obedient by learning when it has been disobedient. When i ride a horse round a cross country course the last thing I would do is start hitting it if it was tiring towards the end.
AOTF,
Although sharing some of your concerns, I’m a little confused.If the use of a
cushioned
whip should be
not just restricted but banned
…
How does your consceince see horses ridden in competition over a course with rock solid obstacles? Obstacles which can kill. With horse and rider getting better and better at Cross Country, every year those obstacles are being made harder and more
frightening
to jump.
Value Is EverythingPlease, BHA, reconsider the final furlong rule of a maximum of 5 strokes. This is for the good of the sport. You have the time to respond rule, you now have the 7 strokes rule per flat race rule. This is a needless rule, that has no benefit as far as I can see.
6 strokes inside the final furlong = 5 day, upper level ban
7 strokes inside a furlong and 87 yards = acceptable.
Take a common sense approach and scrap it. There’s no 6 strokes per any furlong rule – it truly has no merit.
That is all for Day 1 on the new whip rules from me. I hope Day 2 is better for the sport.
I believe 100% that jockeys riding a finish should be allowed to use
Their Judgement
,not that of someone else
Do you also believe drivers on the road should be allowed to drive at whatever speed they wish to using their judgement?
That’s a ridiculous comparison to make.
The BHA have taken Stewards discretion out of racing replaced it with a bunch of numbers and expect it to work.
Hughsie is a classic example of why the new rules won’t work.
He was riding out a normal finish yesterday, just another day at the office to him when his mount started to hang badly.
The last thing on his mind was counting when every bone in his body was telling him to give his mount a slap to prevent a possible accident.
It’s fine and well someone sitting in comfy chair saying he should have done this or that but our natural instinct and reflexes automatically take over when danger ensues.
It’s not something we have time to think about, subconsciously our mind flashes danger and we react to protect instantly.
Flying along at 40mph on the back of a racecourse you have even less time to think and most decisions are made in an instant.
Apparently the Stewards hands were tied and until the BHA untie them and go back to allowing Stewards to decide what deserves a ban and what doesn’t this is going to be one long nightmare.
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The evidence from abroad (as well as here) is that the sight of flailing whips adds to people’s sense of excitement, and makes people more likely to believe everyone’s trying hard, without damaging the horses (physically or psychologically) in the least.
(Nobody is suggesting bringing back the old whip, or spurs, or introducing electric shock devices.)
Did you really find nothing wrong with Jamie Spencer’s ride of Cape Blanco Pinza?
Correct: I found nothing "wrong" with it, and much to admire.
To equate "
whipism
" (to coin a phrase) with
sexism
and
racism
, Ginger, is …. well, an interesting gambit.
I understand your frustration and disappointment that the new rule, which you supported as the Final Fix, has already caused such massive anger and discontent in the Sport. It’s not working, and it’s not going to. But that is no reason to start accusing the rule’s opponents of criminality. We live in a democracy, not some fundamentalist Animal Aid state.
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That is all for Day 1 on the new whip rules from me. I hope Day 2 is better for the sport.
Day 5 (
Champions Day
) is going to be the interesting one, Jose. Plus the NH situation, of course.
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