November 18, 2006 at 11:07 #458
Another betting exchange WBX are due to start within a week and they have already sponsored many races in order to get the name plastered around several racetracks.<br>They will be sponsoring the WBX Triple crown where they offer a cool Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1 million to the winner of The Fighting Fifth, The Xmas hurdle at Kempton and finally the champion hurdle.<br>The prize money is listed as Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£700k to the winning owner, Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£150K to the winning trainer, Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£100k to the winning stable lad/lass and finally a Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£50k for the winning stable staff.<br>I doubt if they will be paying this out and they may have even insured against the risk but they do seem to have some serious backing (but so did The Sportsman)<br>Couple of questions, What do they need to do to take enough customers from Betfair to survive as I see at time Betdaq seems to have trouble with liquidity.<br>I think that currently anyone that wants to use the exchanges would have a betfair account at least and<br>although I have registered an interest in starting an account (as they promise special deals) I cant see that <br>unless they take thousands from betfair that they will be able to survive is no good offering a 1% com deal if all that one can get on is Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£40 as was the case on [removed]
the other day I looked at a market and the same market on betfair there was Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£22k available.<br>Overall competition is good for customers but will it be like Mr Patels corner shop trying to compete with Tesco?November 18, 2006 at 11:17 #31302SwallowCottageMember
- Total Posts 1008
It will be good for punters if BF do get some serious competition. WBX will need to offer security, lower commission rates and decent liquidity in order to prosper but how they will entice existing BF customers away to their site? Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â <br>November 18, 2006 at 15:34 #31303
For all that I am one of the least likely people to appear on an Ian Davies dining party guest list (I think I’m down near the bottom of the list, somewhere beside Chompy and Jim JTS) I had an admiration for the chutzpah he showed in setting up his exchange.
While accepting that his exchange had a major flaw in the ease/speed with which people could fund their accounts initially, it surprised me (as it did him I’m sure) that so very few people were prepared to play at 1% commission.
The key, I think is liquidity, and creating the initial liquidity which will attract players will be any new market entrants major problem one suspects.
One possible way would be to set aside a significant budget to make really significant concessions to the major players (even as far as paying them to play, perhaps) is one possible idea that springs to mind. Maybe been tried already though, I don’t know, and I’m sure Betfair would soon react to such a move.
Unless they have very firm, sound plans in place to get that initial liquidity they are dooooooooomed.<br>November 18, 2006 at 15:44 #31304insomniacParticipant
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Who’s behind WBX?<br>Liquidity as you say Cormack is the key. Surely they’ll have to seed markets big time. – and look what that did for Sporting Options!November 18, 2006 at 15:51 #31305
Hopefully they’ll be savvy enough to know seeding is not the answer. Finding ways top get the big players on board is what’s required and that will cost money, one way or another.November 18, 2006 at 16:10 #31306stevedvgMember
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Unless they have very firm, sound plans in place to get that initial liquidity they are dooooooooomed.
Personally, I’d rather bet at 5% comm and seven figure markets (i.e. > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1m) than 3% comm and 5 figure markets.
So, I’d imagine that they’re probably going to have to do something to get a lot of liquidity fast.
What? I’ve no idea.
SteveNovember 18, 2006 at 17:04 #31307dave jayMember
- Total Posts 3386
On any exchange more than 80% of the liquidity comes from less than 0.5% of the users .. without an API there will be no liquidity.
I wouldn’t deposit a bean with an exchange that didn’t offer me and API facility. You will probably be betting against your own money other wise.<br>;)November 18, 2006 at 18:06 #31308
WBX were due to start up last February which must mean there have been some probs along the line.<br>The rumours I have heard are they intend going into the football Asian handicaps in a big way but betfair have been messing around with the commision they have been charging on these markets and it has been varying between 1 and 3% on these markets so maybe they have been hearing the same stories from the Covent Garden company.<br>The current website looks poor and chances are they be starting this 1million pound sponsorship withoutthe site running. Incidentally although the names ofthe races have been changed I think Kribensis may have won all three races in the past. (could well be wrong)<br>Betfair can afford to match any commision deal if they choose for a while.November 18, 2006 at 18:14 #31309apracingParticipant
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<br>Although liquidity is clearly a big issue, I reckon that it’s even more important that their software proves 100% reliable.
Even if they attract the players and establish liquidity, it will disappear again overnight if the website isn’t stable. And as someone that worked on large scale computer projects in my days as a wage slave, I know just how difficult it is to implement such a complex system and get it right from day one.
It’s almost a Catch 22 – no liquidity, no customers – lots of liquidity, more pressure on the software as the load increases.
But as competition is the only thing that will bring down costs, I’m certainly hoping they have a roaring success on their hands.
AP<br>November 18, 2006 at 18:35 #31310MountyMember
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If they doubled your initial deposit (up to a maximum of Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£5,000) with the proviso that you leave it in there for at least 12 months and have x number of trades per month then they might just survive.November 19, 2006 at 02:15 #31311Jim JTSMember
- Total Posts 841
Why is bigtony allowed to post Davies’ crap on this forum? he’s BANNED for ****
s sake :angry:
<br>Corm, please get this sorted!November 19, 2006 at 09:15 #31312
Big Tony, aka ID<br>I never stated I wanted more than Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£40 on any trade. I just highlighted the difference between what was available on one exchange for the same horse as opposed to another. <br>I am in no way a ‘high roller’ but my average stakes do actually exceed Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£40 sobs.<br>Overall Malcom Gray may have a lot of money but so far all he has done has to become the third largest race sponsor this season with so far not a single dime back in return so how long can that last?<br>The business has been set up in 2 buildings in Covent Garden which apart from Mayfair and Knightsbridge must be the most expensive property area in this country. The local cafe for his staff is not some greasy spoon but ‘ The Ivy’. Again how long can this all last?<br>What are the odds the company will be starting up within the next 7 days as planned?
Overall Tony if someone gets banned should you not respect the decision of the website owners and other members and (not for the first time) just carry on regardless clearly posting on their behalf?November 19, 2006 at 09:51 #31313
Alright – as I kind of inadvertently ‘invited’ the response by mentioning the name of you know who (my second piece of bad judgement of the day following the Betfair Chase debacle!) I will allow Big Tony this one FINAL transgession.
BT – you’ve been warned on this issue before. Count this as a final public warning. One more post under your name by any banned member and you will join them in the vaults.
Ian – while I’m sure it is frustrating to be unable to comment on issues on this forum which are close to your heart you did choose to forfeit that privilege so I’d be obliged if you’d respect that.November 19, 2006 at 22:43 #31314Shadow LeaderMember
- Total Posts 763
WBX are kidding themselves. How they can spout rubbish about there being a niche in the market for a comeptitor to BF is beyond me. Even more entertaining was the line that "punters deserve a choice" – erm, how much of a choice do they have from the hundreds of thousands of punters laying horses on BF?! Dermot Desmond and his billions have fallen short seeding their markets to create sufficient liquidity so I’m at a loss to see where IBX think their liquidity will come from. Liquidity is the main, the only, thing that matters in a betting exchange and I think they will fail there.
Oh, and [cousin] Paul sends his regards to the Baron of Basingstoke! :biggrin:November 24, 2006 at 07:35 #31315
Well they are up and running at 7.30 am today the total matched on all of todays racing was Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£4.00<br>but there has been Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20.00 matched on the premiership football market. <br>
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