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Was Arkle definitely the greatest chaser of all time?

Home Forums Horse Racing Was Arkle definitely the greatest chaser of all time?

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  • #23689
    harshthakor
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    • Total Posts 147

    Arkle is the equivalent of a prophet like Jesus Christ or Muhammad to horse racing who defined the sport more than any horse ever be it on the flat or over the jumps.The weights he carried was so overwhelming combined with the phenomenal superiority he displayed taht seperate weights were made for Arkle.In a full career he would certainly have won 5 Gold Cups.However inspite of being rated at 212 is there not a possibility that Kauto Star may have beaten him in the modern era with superior training methods?On the other hand Arkle did not win national and a Gold Cup in the same year as Golden Miller did in 1935 ,that too in record time carrying topweight.There were many experts who rated Golden Miller as the greatest steeplechaser of alltime,notwithstanding Arkle or Red Rum.Red Rum’s achievements in the Grand National could not be equaled by Arkle and he was simply a ‘Muhammad Ali’ at Aintree.If he had a proper career Flying Bolt may have edged Arkle over 2 miles.Above all had Arkle raced in the last 2 decades with the fences changed and different tracks would he have been as overwhelmingly superior.Brough Scott feels that Kauto Star’s feats in the King George surpassed that of Arkle’s.I do not doubt Arkle’s place but question whether later superstars were closer to Arkle than officially rated.

    Personally I feel timeform has rated Kauto Star too much below Arkle at 191.I request readers to send their views.

    #433160
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34704

    Personally as a Timeform worshiper; looking back I have some doubts whether Kauto Star was as good as his rating. Undoubtedly a Great horse, put up so many outstanding efforts. But the 2009 King George is a stand out performance in ratings. Winning by officially a "distance", but measured at 36 lengths from Madison Du Berlais.

    Runner-up unable to go the strong pace half-way and just stayed on past beaten horses. Not at his best and flattered compared to those he beat. Third Barber Shop ran well, but as per usual finished weakly, having looked booked for second. Fourth Nacarat arguably went off too quick and couldn’t sustain it (below form). Fifth Imperial Commander made early mistakes and never in it; neither was the only other to start single figures Deep Purple. Sixth Alberta’s Run beaten at half-way. Previous placed horses Our Vic and Racing Demon going off at 40/1 and 100/1, showing how they were on the decline.

    I wonder how many horses ran to form? Only one possible and that’s Barbers Shop, but he’s not that reliable being a weak finisher. Pace so strong, possibly only the great Kauto Star able to show his best. I don’t know if there was any time analysis in Timeform analysis of the performance/rating, will look it up. However…

    Bit of an exaggeration but: If there was a human race where

    club runners

    took on Olympic athletes and

    all

    go off at a

    stronger than Olympic pace

    – then the winning distances will "flatter" the Olympic athlete. ie If the club runners went club runner pace – in the end they’d be closer to the winner at the finish than they would if racing with the Olympic athletes in the early stages.

    I would not like to rate the 2009 King George, it’s a difficult job. But Kauto Star did not get within 5 lbs of that rating before or since.

    Don’t get me wrong; Kauto Star was a great, possibly even the greatest. Just think his Timeform rating/superiority might be slightly too big compared to modern day rivals.

    Do believe ALL horses have probably improved with new training methods and foods etc, so whether Arkle (with 60’s training methods and food) would be as good as 212 if brought by Tardis to take on 2014 horses? Again (imo) doubtful.

    It is a shame Sprinter Sacre and Kauto Star do/did not run in a handicaps. May be then we’d know just how good they are/were.

    Value Is Everything
    #433338
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5228

    Yes. This really has been done to death. Can someone find the old threads to stop all the same points being made again.

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