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So it is a vendetta against me? You are openly admitting you set out to abuse and antagonise me?
Going off memory, don’t think I have abused you as you have done to me twice. At least.
You think that is the type of behaviour a forum who advertises Intellegent Discussion should put up with?
What sort of dumbass would openly admit he was a trouble maker for all to see?
Not the brightest star in the sky are you?
That’s about the 3rd time I’ve admitted it…I mean it’s pretty obvious for all to see. Why would I deny it? Who would direct so many posts at one person and then say it’s just a coincidence? How would I achieve anything in our pas de deux without admitting it?
Your little rant about Nicky and the QMCC is straight out of a comic book as your statement regarding gambling.
Which ‘rant’? Which ‘statement regarding gambling’?
I NEVER SAID PN"S YARD WAS A GAMBLING YARD DID I???????????
Why is your excuse always ‘I never said it’? You heavily implied it with your statement about him being 3/1.
Please please please stop Zark you are like a mosquito biting at my toes, no brains and all mouth and I find you infuriatingly annoying.
‘No brains’, coming from the man who has responded to my posts but swearing at me.
‘All mouth’, coming from you, Fist, is even more priceless.
Weeks and week I put up with the guy and not one person said a thing to him.
Now he’s openly admitted he has a private vendetta against me and you pull me up for a couple of harmless swearwords. Are you for real?
Telling someone to ‘FOAD’ I don’t think is particularly harmless, no. Nor do I think calling someone a ‘F>U>C>K>I>N lowlife’ is either.
I did not simple as, but he kept going and going and going and he;s still friggin going after saying his purpose was not for me to leave.
And you dare patronise me?
Behave yourself Ginger ffs
Here we go again, swearing at other members now. Are you going to alienate every single member on here?
I’m having a go at you because your posts are an utter joke yet you declare everything as gospel.
Please could you leave it until Cheltenham when one is proved wrong/right.
It has absolutely nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong. I’ve already said it doesn’t bother me and I will happily congratulate him for being right (even though he originally said Menorah would win it & immediately jumped on the bandwagon post-chasing debut at Doncaster).
Reincarnation calmed you down a bit Hurdy, until outed as Fist. Now gone back to your earlier guise.
I got in to a similar bout with you about Kauto Star many moons ago. When you appeared to contradict yourself from one race to another. Others have accused me of the same, no big deal. When someone has so many opinions there’s bound to be the odd occasion where (to others) things don’t look right. Please try to keep calm and just concentrate in showing Zark why he is wrong (if he is) and not resort to swearing. It would be a nice gesture if you were to delete the swearing and any other quote where you may have gone over the top. And for Zark to respond to your gesture by deleting anything that may have taken his arguement a little too far.
Don’t want to see you leave this place again Fist. Enjoyed at least some of Hurdy’s wordys.
Weeks and week I put up with the guy and not one person said a thing to him.
Now he’s openly admitted he has a private vendetta against me and you pull me up for a couple of harmless swearwords. Are you for real?
If I had started this or even responded badly to his initial crap I would hold my hand up and say Yeah it’s my fault ban my a$$ or whatever.
I did not simple as, but he kept going and going and going and he;s still friggin going after saying his purpose was not for me to leave.
And you dare patronise me?
Behave yourself Ginger ffs
I am not taking sides here, just saying how I see it.
I have not defended you Fist because I didn’t see any posts on other threads to defend. Not that I am saying there wasn’t any. Had I seen anything wrong I would’ve said something.
I do think Zark overstepped the mark with a couple of provocative sentences early on on this thread, which should (imo) be deleted. But your response to them (swearing etc) is taking it totally over the top Hurdy. So yes Fist, you did "respond badly to his initial c…". Zark may be the one (on this thread) initially in the wrong, but you over-reacted.
Would not call Zark’s words a "vendetta" exactly, he’s just fed up with what he sees as inconsistencies in your posts. It is up to you to explain why they are not inconsistencies.
In a thread in Horse Racing, Tooting accused me of disrespecting Mark Coton and David Myres (amongst others). I was very upset by the accusation, but instead of swearing at him, I (hopefully) showed why he is wrong about those two and challenged him to provide evidence of me doing so with others, so that I can defend myself. So far I’ve heard nothing, which shows there was no "disrespect".
The way you’ve blasted Zark hasn’t done your case any good.
Sorry, but if you think my post is "patronising", then you must be paranoid Fist.
Value Is EverythingI think it’s rather interesting that Finian’s Rainbow’s connections have identified Wishfull Thinking as the main danger. I’m sure I, like many others, pretty much discounted him as a Queen Mother contender after Finian beat him last time out despite the mistake.
When you look at Paul Nicholls possible 2 mile championship horses this season…
First there was Tataniano and Ghizao, Tataniano injured again and Ghizao’s jumping and possibly temperament hasn’t stood the test. then Kauto Stone was brought in for the Tingle Creek, not fast enough to trouble Sizing Europe.
Nicholls wants a candidate with a chance of winning the major 2 mile chases; particularly in his fight for another trainers title. Without Al Ferof in the Victor Chandler, Finians Rainbow would’ve been an even shorter price / bigger chance of Henderson picking up a big win… and possibly going on to the two mile crown at Cheltenham. Sprinter Sacre and Peddlers Cross look potentially superior to the best established 2 mile chasers. So may be it will be easier for Al Ferof to win this year’s Champion than the Arkle or indeed next year’s Champion. So no wonder Al Ferof has been fast tracked.It may well in turn be "Wishful Thinking" on Henderson’s part that Wishful Thinking is his strongest opposition. Not wanting a Nicholls victory.
Desert Orchid form best ignored completely in my opinion. Both FR and WT made awful mistakes at the same fence and neither ran to form.
Value Is EverythingHi all long time since I last posted anything everybody is going on about AL Ferof and Finian’s Rainbow.
What about Somersby only beaten a sh at levels by Master Minded in this last year are the two above as good or better than Master Minded?
At A best price of 6’1 I think I would take a chance with Somersby,
Your Thoughts?There’s no doubt PN does over face some horses. I was actually a bit shocked when he threw Kauto Stone in at the deep end as he looked so promising early doors.
Ghizao look brilliant at Cheltenham when he flew on fence which was so impressive it stuck in my mind it had me thinking he was better than he actually is and with Tatatiano what you see is what you get but potentially Al Ferof looked batter than them when winning the Supreme but then that dreadful run last time has you wondering.
I immeditaly looked back at the Supreme and wondered is he really that good or did this race fall into his lap. NH reckons
Cheltenham
was a year too soon for both of his. Take them out and consider they were all flat to the boards and he’s beaten Cue Card 2 lengths further than Menorah did.
Is that really good form or not? Damned if I know.
Tomorrow will tell us more.
I’m having another bet on Somersby anyway as I think if he’ll ever win a big race it will be this one for reason’s I a have already given.
Yup, you are correct, Al Ferof beat Cue Card by 2 lengths further than Menorah did.
Except that was Al Ferof’s first season hurdling and it was Menorah’s second.
That run puts him alongside Thousand Stars in 4th in the Champion Hurdle. On his 5th start over hurdles. As a novice. And you’re questioning whether that’s good form?
With all the talk surrounding second season novice, Finian’s Rainbow, and leading Arkle prospect Al Ferof, many have ignored the one horse in the line-up who has mixed it with the very best over recent years, Forpadydeplasterer.
There were valid health related excuses for his poor efforts in the rearranged King George and seasonal return at Navan last year, but prior to that he was an ultra-consistent 167-rated performer.
There is nothing to suggest that the 2009 Arkle hero is longer the force of old, and he ran Big Zeb to the same six length margin last time out that he did when runner-up to that rival in the 2010 Champion Chase.
He has failed to get his head in front since his Festival triumph, but he could quite easily go close under conditions that may not suit his biggest rivals, but will almost certainly suit him.
Somersby is another who has crossed swords with the best minimum distance performers in the game, but he had a hard race at Kempton and is arguably better over slightly further, much like his Huntingdon conqueror, Gauvain.
I’m not convinced that Finan’s Rainbow will be entirely suited by Ascot at this level. I think he will prove better on a left-handed, preferably sharper track. He has started his sophomore season over the bigger obstacles on an almost identical rating to fellow Arkle graduates from Festivals past, Forpadydeplasterer and Somersby. He has obvious room for improvement, but I’m not convinced it will be under these conditions.
Al Ferof is a mature head on young shoulders and has demonstrated enough already to suggest that he can mix it against such classy, experienced rivals. I rate him at a similar level, if not slightly higher, than Finian’s Rainbow was at this stage last season. He easily disposed of Astracad (145) at Cheltenham, and For Non Stop (151) was arguably flattered to get as close as he did at Sandown after Al Ferof hit the front sooner than planned.
Two miles around a galloping track like Ascot will suit, and his jumping has been flawless around two of the most notoriously difficult chase courses in the country. Connections are very confident and he looks sure to run a huge race.
He beat some seriously good horses to land the Supreme at Cheltenham last season and looks destined for the very top. Despite the two year age difference, he has actually visited the racecourse on one more occasion than the favourite, Finan’s Rainbow. Al Ferof is jumping into the unknown here and it could be left up to that wily veteran and former Arkle hero, Forpadydeplasterer, to ensure that he earns his stripes and, in the process, prepare him for his own assult on the two mile novice chase championship.
My idea of the 1-2-3:
1 FORPADYDEPLASTERER
2 AL FEROF
3 FINIAN’S RAINBOWIt’s definitely a race to watch for me, without having a bet. As Bosranic and THM have pointed out, even FPP could win if he runs like he did last time out, without hitting the last. I don’t buy talk of a weak renewal either. It could be stronger and more competitive than the last few renewals depending on how Al Ferorf and Finians Rainbow turn out. I don’t even have an opinion on who will win.
I think there’s a few people got the wrong end of the stick here Supe. How’s Louise by the way?
For Paddydeplasterer is trained by Thomas Cooper and not by Tommy Cooper of "Just like that" fame, he died year ago.
As great a magician as he was I doubt if even he could have pulled a rabbit out of the hat in this one.
No harm in chancing your arm lots do and occasionally land lucky but to put a believable case up for him actually winning is near impossible
He was a short priced fav the last time he came over and got a great ride from Barry Geharty but Jacob barely had to move on Gauvain to outpoint him by 4 lengths at the same weights as today. Granted FPDP made some jumping errors but that’s all part of the game.
Just to reverse placing with Gauvain he’s going to have to turn up here in better form than he was that day and the odds are stacked against him doing that.
The horse just doesn’t care. No way would he have all those 2s and 3s next to his name if he was game. You just can’t be that consistent at the top level without winning unless there’s something wrong with you.
I’d rather see 101F1P1U101 if I were looking to place a win bet.
5/2 on the machine for a place though. I’ve seen many worse bets.
I’ve backed Al Ferof at 10/3 because I just think he’s the price he is because he’s a novice. People aren’t looking at what he’s done and who he’s beaten.
There’s not a horse rated above 166 in the field (Somersby…). Al Ferof was rated 154 over hurdles. I honestly believe he should be joint-favourite, if not favourite. I mean his hurdle rating is only 3lbs worse than Finian’s Rainbow’s chase rating.
Barry says Al Ferof is up against it and he’s Ruby’s pal ???
Boys have been chatting I reckonPlace Lay Al Ferof 1.75 300 gets you 400
Paul Nicholls said he was up against it and he’s Ruby’s boss, means nothing….
Always tough a novice taking on older horses for the first time, PN one of the very best at it though and to place lay a horse who has jumped superbly twice, has showed he has heart in a finish, is un-exposed and looks to have bags of potential aand trained by the best in the game is crazy to me!!
Hope Al Ferof runs a blinder and wouldn’t be too disappointed if he did win even though I’ve backed Somersby EW…..
Normally an 8 runner Grade 1 is an excellent race to bet each way. But is this an "each way race"?
With 5 of those 8 talked about as good each way bets, looks too competitive for such wagers to me. Particularly with two professional losers in Forpaddy and Somersby. In my opinion those two’s record of placed efforts mean if I was going to back Al Ferof it would have to be win only. Then there is Wishful Thinking who would have the best form of the lot if reproducing last season’s form and Gauvain so hard to work out (may be good, may be just beating out of form horses). There are question marks about every horse in the race, including first and second favourites.
If backing Somersby or Forpaddy I’d rather do place only bets. If backing any other horse rather keep to win only.
Value Is EverythingNormally an 8 runner Grade 1 is an excellent race to bet each way. But is this an "each way race"?
With 5 of those 8 talked about as good each way bets, looks too competitive for such wagers to me. Particularly with two professional losers in Forpaddy and Somersby. In my opinion those two’s record of placed efforts mean if I was going to back Al Ferof it would have to be win only. Then there is Wishful Thinking who would have the best form of the lot if reproducing last season’s form and Gauvain so hard to work out (may be good, may be just beating out of form horses). There are question marks about every horse in the race, including first and second favourites.
If backing Somersby or Forpaddy I’d rather do place only bets. If backing any other horse rather keep to win only.
Good chain of thought Ginger but I wouldn’t back FPDP not even for a place.
Wishful Thinking still looks awful generous at 2.84. I laid Al Ferof at 1.74 and 1.75 then again at 1.81 and took 2.9 -2.84 about Wishful Thinking
With so many good travellers in this I reckon it will be easy to green up on Al Ferof who’s sure to trade bigger in running and sure to come late even if he wins
Boys have been chatting I reckon
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