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I fancy Al Ferof, just think he’s the better horse. Finian’s Rainbow usually jumps well, but perhaps Al is more consistent.
I think they should be about 2/1 joint favs.
Now, far more interestingly…I’ve backed HurdyGurdyBurdyMan at 2.2 on Betfair to whoop Zarkava’s booty behind the bike shed after class on Friday at 4pm.
I hope they’ll shake hands and afterward they BOTH remain on the forum. We need forthright opinion on here….and even a bit of playful bitchin’ …just nowt nasty.
Who wants a literary rumble?
Zip
2.2? I knew someone would fall for it.
The last thing I want is for Fist to leave the forum. I’m just sick and tired of his constant contradictions, inconsistency and insistency that whatever he says, no matter how little proof he has, is correct.
This year’s Arkle, should all the market principles make it there, including Menorah, Cue Card and Blackstairmountain, could be one of the all-time astonishing races. We could have Al Ferof winning a couple of Gold Cups, Sprinter Sacre a couple of Queen Mothers and Peddler’s Cross winning a couple of Ryanairs or maybe even more.
Yet it’s been soured already for me so much by this bloody ‘Sprinter Sacre is Arkle’ stuff that gets constantly rammed down our throats by Fist. In some threads he’s said ignore the form from Sandown, Al Ferof was bored, in others he’s said Al Ferof put in an abysmal performance, in others he’s said Al Ferof’s not a strong traveller. I mean it’s just laughable.
Fist, the 6 out of 8 posts the other day. Come on, some of them are just done for comedic purposes. Not everything I say is meant to come across seriously. Although I’m interested to know if you thought my post of ‘Binocular is s**t’ was also aimed at you…
Not every Nicky Henderson horse is God and you don’t need to swear at me (twice) because of my vendetta against you. Just use what I use – my words, my brain and your quotes.
Now Zarks, lets not be bitter.
For starters, I for one can see Sprinter Sacre as one of the most overrated horses doing the rounds for a long old while. We agree on the act he probably won’t win the Arkle – he’s just not the horse for the race!
Peddlers Cross may well go on to bigger and better things, but come next year I’d think a greater distance will be on the horizon.
Al Ferof will surely clean up in the Arkle, as for the Victor Chandler, I’d rather see him lose to be honest. I mean, lets face facts, if he wins, will Paul Nicholls really avoid the Queen Mum?
Ok Ok!!! I don’t mind Zark having a go but you Bozlike how can you justify saying Sprinter Sacre is over rated and the Arkle isn’t his type of race? Give me 4/1 will you?
Ask yourself this Why on earth do you think Paul Nichols is throwing a Novice into the VC? The last thing any young horse needs at this stage of his career.
Do you honestly think he’s doing it because he thinks he’s the next Kauto Star?
He’s doing it because PN is one smart cookie and he feels it’s his best and only chance of winning a Group 1 chase with the horse this season.
if they thought this horse could beat Sprinter Sacre do you honestly think for 1 minute you’d be getting 3/1 against Finians Rainbow. There is absolutely no doubt in Nicky Henderson’s or Barry’s mind which is the far superior horse.
If it was thought generally that Al Ferof could beat Sprinter Sacre he’d be 2/5 to beat Finian’s Rainbow would he not?
He’s 3/1 because he’s already disappointed connections and he’s a novice taking on 2nd season chasers with no weight concession.
No one’s saying he cant win this but he’s no Kauto Star but Sprinter Sacre could be and Paul Nichols knows it.
Right son……………
number 1) You need to get your nose out of Nicky Henderson’s a***. He’s not reading and it’s just coming across a bit pathetic now.
And number 2) How is it meant that *Zarks* can possibly oppose you yet I can’t?! Am I not good enough to argue with the legend that is HurdyGurdyMan?! Yes I am relatively new to this forum, but that doesn’t give me any more or less say in the 2 battle of the brutes? Your arguments recently have become tiresome and I had noticed you’d given yourself a day or 2 off to cool off but it doesn’t mean you can come back firing at the next man knocking your opinions. I always did believe Zarks had a point, and that you just wouldn’t take kindly to a disagreement, but seriously mate, chill out and grow up!
Any who, I would be preferable to Finians Rainbow in this, despite my non stop Al Ferof jibber jabber for the Arkle. It’s a simple case of Nicholl’s fever for January, and Al Ferof will be dead set for March
Ok Ok!!! I don’t mind Zark having a go but you Bozlike how can you justify saying Sprinter Sacre is over rated and the Arkle isn’t his type of race? Give me 4/1 will you?
Because the success which elevated his status to a 5/2 Arkle favourite came in a race that Henderson farms on a track that suits him. And Peddler’s Cross came back hurt. And why would he give you 4/1 when he can offer 11/4 and get matched?
Ask yourself this Why on earth do you think Paul Nichols is throwing a Novice into the VC? The last thing any young horse needs at this stage of his career.
Why is Nicky Henderson running Sprinter Sacre in the Game Spirit? The last thing any young horse needs at this stage of his career…
Arcalis ran in the Christmas Hurdle while he was a novice. He won the Supreme Hurdle 3 months later and the Fighting Fifth 8 months later. Binocular ran in the Supreme Hurdle when he was 4. Master Minded ran in the Champion Chase when he was 5. Kauto Star ran in the Haldon Gold Cup on his 3rd chase start as a 5yo. He won the Tingle Creek on his 4th. Not one of them had run at Cheltenham, let alone the Festival.
Al Ferof is 7. He’s run at Cheltenham 4 times. He’s run at the Festival twice. He finished 2nd and 1st.
Perhaps Nicholls doesn’t want a farcically run 3-runner egg-and-spoon race where they’ll go no gallop and won’t bring Al Ferof on? Remember what happened to Tataniano pre-Arkle? The race also comes a good 3 weeks before the next proper Arkle trial, the Kingmaker. If he gets a knock, falls or is brought down, it gives them 3 more weeks to play with. What happens if any tiny thing happens to Sprinter Sacre? Immediately in a race against time.
Do you honestly think he’s doing it because he thinks he’s the next Kauto Star?
Very possibly, but more likely the reasons I outlined.
He’s doing it because PN is one smart cookie and he feels it’s his best and only chance of winning a Group 1 chase with the horse this season.
You think racing against a horse who’s 2 years older, a 2nd season chaser and far more experienced represents his best chance of winning a Grade 1 this season with his novice chaser? So you’re saying that Finian’s Rainbow is crap and Al Ferof will have a much greater test against other novices in the Maghull Novices’ Chase, Powers Gold Cup or any other Grade 1 for novices?
If they thought this horse could beat Sprinter Sacre do you honestly think for 1 minute you’d be getting 3/1 against Finians Rainbow. There is absolutely no doubt in Nicky Henderson’s or Barry’s mind which is the far superior horse.
Here come the contradictions…only this time you’ve managed to contradict your previous paragraph…
Are you also suggesting that the Paul Nicholls stable is a gambling one? Jesus wept.
If it was thought generally that Al Ferof could beat Sprinter Sacre he’d be 2/5 to beat Finian’s Rainbow would he not?
No.
It’s generally thought on here that Finian’s Rainbow is the most likely winner yet he remains a 7/4 15/8 shot…
He’s 3/1 because he’s already disappointed connections and he’s a novice taking on 2nd season chasers with no weight concession.
Ruby Walsh reportedly said (reported today on twitter) that Al Ferof is up there with Azertyuiop and Kauto Star at this stage of their careers. Paul Nicholls has also given him a Queen Mother entry. Hardly ‘disappointing connections’, is it?
A quote from Nicholls post-Cheltenham in November;
"I’m really pleased with that because I wasn’t convinced he’d be that good first time out," said Nicholls.
And post-Sandown last month;
"He jumped brilliant, which is what we wanted, but to be at his best he needs a fast-run race as he does nothing in front and pulls himself up. I also think the second is a bloody good horse,” said winning trainer Paul Nicholls.
Incidentally, the horse he crucified at Cheltenham on his chasing debut won a Handicap Chase off 137 next time out against older horses.
No one’s saying he cant win this
You’ve said pretty much the exact opposite.
but he’s no Kauto Star but Sprinter Sacre could be and Paul Nichols knows it.
I can play your silly games too.
Why has Nicky Henderson given Sprinter Sacre no entry in the Queen Mother? I reckon he’s secretly hoping Al Ferof bolts up in the VC to tempt connections into running in the Champion Chase to leave Sprinter Sacre with a much easier test, a test he might actually win. You see, Nicky Henderson knows that Sprinter Sacre is no Kauto Star, but Al Ferof could be…
Your posts stun me. Look no further for a reason behind my vendetta against you.
Reincarnation calmed you down a bit Hurdy, until outed as Fist. Now gone back to your earlier guise.
I got in to a similar bout with you about Kauto Star many moons ago. When you appeared to contradict yourself from one race to another. Others have accused me of the same, no big deal. When someone has so many opinions there’s bound to be the odd occasion where (to others) things don’t look right. Please try to keep calm and just concentrate in showing Zark why he is wrong (if he is) and not resort to swearing. It would be a nice gesture if you were to delete the swearing and any other quote where you may have gone over the top. And for Zark to respond to your gesture by deleting anything that may have taken his arguement a little too far.
Don’t want to see you leave this place again Fist. Enjoyed at least some of Hurdy’s wordys.
Value Is EverythingBack to the thread subject.
For me,
Wishful Thinking
will prove capable at a strongly run 2 miles and IF coming back to his novice form can win this even if not improving on it. The "IF" means he’s not certain to do so, but priced at 13/2 (ladbrokes) it’s worth taking the chance (imo). With the stable going much better now, there is a fair chance of a return to form. It will need a much better performance than he’s shown so far this season. Went too quickly at Sandown for it to mean much and being held up off a slow pace last time at Kempton didn’t suit. Heard some breathing questions which are a worry. May be more of a Spring horse than Autumn.
Both Finians Rainbow and Wishful Thinking below form there. Though they also made bad mistakes at the same fence. Oiseau Du Nuit vastly flattered in being so close.Finians Rainbow deserves to be favourite here, but around 15/8 looks too short to me. There’s still a chance very best form is on good ground. Owner has put him in the Ryanair and Gold Cup and apparently changed in demeanor since last year. Much more settled. That could be a good thing, but also there’s a chance he doesn’t have the same potential at this trip anymore.
Somersby has the ability to figure, but probably not speed or enthusiasm. Might not have stayed in the King George. Didn’t find anything off the bridle at 3 miles, but rarely does at any trip.
Forpaddytheplasterer is a bit the same, particularly in the enthusiasm department. Front running might be the reason for an apparent return to form. Whether he’ll be able to get an easy lead here remains to be seen. If not he may sulk. Not a bad place only bet though if anywhere near each way odds are available for place only bets.
Al Ferof is a really good novice who jumps well. Will need to improve win this and plenty short enough at 11/4. As Boz said, Nicholls January form hasn’t been good for a few years now. Got to take that in to account when thinking of backing him. Novices this year look exceptional, however I’d put him only third best in the 2 mile novice division so far.
I’msolucky isn’t good enough.
Gauvain
is interesting for in form trainer Nick Williams. But what did he achieve at Huntingdon? Somersby sour and Gauvain under pressure some way out in a 2m4f race. Still might be worth chancing / saver at the prices.
My (win only) prices to 100%:
Finian’s Rainbow 85/40, Al Ferof 7/2,Wishful Thinking 5/1
,
Gauvain 8/1
, Somersby 8/1, Forpaddytheplasterer 20/1, Oiseau De Nuit 40/1, I’m So lucky 200/1.
Value Is EverythingWell for someone whose January form is not that good, he’s having a good couple of days. Cedre Bleu yesterday, Ranjaan today.
Also have to remember that this is the VC Chase. He’s won the race for the past 3 years so I think it’s rather pessimistic/optimistic to say Al Ferof won’t be close to his best tomorrow.
Not saying Al Ferof won’t be at his best on Saturday Zark. Just that his chance of running below form is probably more so than it might be any other time of year. It isn’t that the best NH trainer in the country doesn’t have January winners; just he does not have as many in January (in percentage terms). So I have to try and allow for that in working out my selection/s. Al Ferof (imo) still has the second best chance of winning the VC.
Value Is EverythingJust spotted as well, Hills have the ‘To win at the Festival’ market running, where Al Ferof is priced up at 6/1. Could be worth a pinch before Saturday in case he were to hack up there. At least that way you’d have 6/1 for both options
Your posts stun me. Look no further for a reason behind my vendetta against you.
So it is a vendetta against me? You are openly admitting you set out to abuse and antagonise me?
You think that is the type of behaviour a forum who advertises Intellegent Discussion should put up with?
What sort of dumbass would openly admit he was a trouble maker for all to see?
Not the brightest star in the sky are you?
As fas as your rant goes:-
You can make all the excuses you wnat for peddlers Cross but Sprinter Sacre’s price is based on what he did not what PC didn’t do. If you think Sprinter Sacre couldn’t perform as well at Cheltenham then you are crazy and obviously haven’t watched the Supreme Hurdle when he cruised round the track without batting an eyelid for 90% of the race.
The fact that Barry Gehraty thinks he’s the best he has ever sat on holds more water with me than your empty ramblings as it does with the bookmakersYou keep talking about a Tweet and quoting Ruby. Who Tweeted it? Wasn’t Ruby Walsh you can bet your life on that. If it were true he had said that it would have appeared on ATR the Sportnglife and the Racing Post websites. IT is not!!! Try googling that statment and send us the link instead of bumbing empty gums to make a case for yourself.
I never said Paul Nichols shouldn’t run Al Ferof plus I said he was smart doing so. I asked why you or anyone thought the reason was and I gave mines
He did say "“
The main aim is the Arkle. Between now and then we’ll just get him some experience, and not necessarily aim him too high. I just want to get a bit of practice into him and get him at his very best for March, like he was last season.”
Could it be he saw Sprinter Sacre’s performance he had a change of heart and decided "stuff it lets grab a race we can win" like I suggested. Something changed his mind and I’m damn sure it wasn’t that half ar$ed effort he put up last time.
Maybe you’ll worm your way around that too and tell me how I am talking crap.
Your little rant about Nicky and the QMCC is straight out of a comic book as your statement regarding gambling.
Paul Nichols doesn’t make the book up so whether he a gambling stable or not has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
The bookies are offering that price not him and are doing so because he is a novice who has already shown he has chinks in his armour, taking on older horses and he gets no allowances. Please get that into your thick skull and stop making up tripe and twsting things to try and make things out of something that has never been said. I NEVER SAID PN"S YARD WAS A GAMBLING YARD DID I???????????
Please please please stop Zark you are like a mosquito biting at my toes, no brains and all mouth and I find you infuriatingly annoying.
The constant bickering, harassing and antagonistic behaviour is a real detriment to the forum and pretty sure it is stopping people coming on here and posting. Please could you leave it until Cheltenham when one is proved wrong/right.
Reincarnation calmed you down a bit Hurdy, until outed as Fist. Now gone back to your earlier guise.
I got in to a similar bout with you about Kauto Star many moons ago. When you appeared to contradict yourself from one race to another. Others have accused me of the same, no big deal. When someone has so many opinions there’s bound to be the odd occasion where (to others) things don’t look right. Please try to keep calm and just concentrate in showing Zark why he is wrong (if he is) and not resort to swearing. It would be a nice gesture if you were to delete the swearing and any other quote where you may have gone over the top. And for Zark to respond to your gesture by deleting anything that may have taken his arguement a little too far.
Don’t want to see you leave this place again Fist. Enjoyed at least some of Hurdy’s wordys.
Weeks and week I put up with the guy and not one person said a thing to him.
Now he’s openly admitted he has a private vendetta against me and you pull me up for a couple of harmless swearwords. Are you for real?
If I had started this or even responded badly to his initial crap I would hold my hand up and say Yeah it’s my fault ban my a$$ or whatever.
I did not simple as, but he kept going and going and going and he;s still friggin going after saying his purpose was not for me to leave.
And you dare patronise me?
Behave yourself Ginger ffs
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