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OneEye
, I don’t need to speak up for him
But you will anyway.
The reason why Manchester United’s integrity won’t be brought into question is because they will do absolutely nothing wrong this afternoon.
The team Manchester United field this afternoon will be a strong team, a team that won the semi-final of the Champions League semi-final second leg in comprehensive fashion. It will include their number one choice goalkeeper, the Premier League top-goalscorer etc etc.
Just because it will include six or seven players that may not be in next week’s Champions League starting line-up doesn’t mean it is a ‘weakened team’. The term ‘weakened team’ is just a perception made up by the media.
United will field a strong line-up this afternoon, and whether that’s good enough to win or not the club’s integrity will not be brought into question by the powers that be because they are doing nothing wrong. Why should Manchester United field the exact same starting line-up as next week just because Blackpool, Birmingham, Wigan, Blackburn and Wolves haven’t been good enough over 37 games to guarantee Premier League safety?
And rest assured, there will be no ‘mutually agreed scorelines all round’ as has been suggested.
Now I don’t know where all this sits in with what is being talked about in horse racing, I’m just putting my opinion across in defence of football.
Have Manchester United – by winning the league title a game early – not earned the right to field a different team to the one that played last week or will play next week? They will pick a starting XI from the 25 man squad submitted to the FA at the request of the FA, so it’s only a ‘weakened’ team in the eyes of the media.
They have to play their best side, OneEye. And the players have to play as if this is the last match they are ever going to play. It’s only fair to Blackburn, Birmingham, Wigan and Wolves. Anything else blows a hole in your integrity argument the size of a moon crater.
No they don’t have to play their best side, and they won’t, and they won’t be punished, which blows an even greater size moon crater into your view.
As I’ve just said in reply to Pinza, why should Manchester United be punished, or have their integrity called into question, for fielding their number one goalkeeper, the Premier League’s top goalscorer, defenders who have played every time either Vidic or Ferdinand were injured/rested previously (which has been quite often), and midfielders such as Anderson and Darren Fletcher etc?
Did UEFA punish Manchester United when almost the identical line-up was fielded in the Champions League semie final second leg?
No they don’t have to play their best side, and they won’t, and they won’t be punished, which blows an even greater size moon crater into your view.
As I’ve just said in reply to Pinza, why should Manchester United be punished, or have their integrity called into question, for fielding their number one goalkeeper, the Premier League’s top goalscorer, defenders who have played every time either Vidic or Ferdinand were injured/rested previously (which has been quite often), and midfielders such as Anderson and Darren Fletcher etc?
Did UEFA punish Manchester United when almost the identical line-up was fielded in the Champions League semie final second leg?
Yes they do have to field their strongest team. The FA rules are quite clear, just ask Blackpool who got fined earlier in the season for no doing so. That they won’t be fined when they’re giving an advantage to one team in the dogfight is exactly why comparing football integrity in favourable terms to racing integrity is a bad joke.
And you say there won’t be mutually agreed results because this is the Premier League & not Serie A but here’s the thing: we know that Italian matches were fixed because there was a very long investigation & teams were fined & demoted.
So ‘Italian match fixing’ is a fact. We’re assuming that ‘race fixing’ is a fact but we won’t know for certain this time until this investigation is concluded. We just think we know.Incidentally, do you not remember or have not heard of eight players being jailed for match fixing in the sixties or more recently Grobellar, Segers & Fashanu?
No they don’t have to play their best side, and they won’t, and they won’t be punished, which blows an even greater size moon crater into your view.
As I’ve just said in reply to Pinza, why should Manchester United be punished, or have their integrity called into question, for fielding their number one goalkeeper, the Premier League’s top goalscorer, defenders who have played every time either Vidic or Ferdinand were injured/rested previously (which has been quite often), and midfielders such as Anderson and Darren Fletcher etc?
Did UEFA punish Manchester United when almost the identical line-up was fielded in the Champions League semie final second leg?
Yes they do have to field their strongest team. The FA rules are quite clear, just ask Blackpool who got fined earlier in the season for no doing so. That they won’t be fined when they’re giving an advantage to one team in the dogfight is exactly why comparing football integrity in favourable terms to racing integrity is a bad joke.
And you say there won’t be mutually agreed results because this is the Premier League & not Serie A but here’s the thing: we know that Italian matches were fixed because there was a very long investigation & teams were fined & demoted.
So ‘Italian match fixing’ is a fact. We’re assuming that ‘race fixing’ is a fact but we won’t know for certain this time until this investigation is concluded. We just think we know.Incidentally, do you not remember or have not heard of eight players being jailed for match fixing in the sixties or more recently Grobellar, Segers & Fashanu?
Yeah, well Italy isn’t a great advertisement for democracy across the board. The mafia call the shots in govt and city politics, so why wouldn’t you expect them to stick their oar into Serie A too? The country is as corrupt as my old 80gb external HDD in the attic.
Sorry guys, completey disagree with you all, but I guess we’ll see who is right and who is wrong in the next few days or so.
So if you are all right, and that Manchester United MUST field their strongest side, then they will be punished for not playing Ferdinand, Rooney, Giggs, Carrick, Hernandez, Valencia etc from the start … right?
WRONG. United’s team, as I said it would be regardless who played, would be strong enough for their integrity not to be brought into question.
Who are the FA or Premier League to tell Manchester United what their best team is? What Blackpool did earlier in the season is completely different. Holloway made 10 or 11 changes from one game to another. In this case, Sir Alex has rested five or six of his star names in preparation for one of the club’s biggest games in their history.
United currently leading 4-2. That’s some brilliant ‘mutually agreed’ scoreline on Holloway’s part don’t you think Anthony
Believe me, British horse racing is far more bent that British football, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.
Believe me, British horse racing is far more bent that British football, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.
Can’t see how anyone can know if that is true or not.
I’d imagine Premiere League is very straight, as I would Pattern races on the flat or Grade 1 National Hunt.It is in the lower divisions of both sports you are more likely to get a problem.
Value Is Everything
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Believe me, British horse racing is far more bent that British football, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain silly.
Can’t see how anyone can know if that is true or not.
I’d imagine Premiere League is very straight, as I would Pattern races on the flat or Grade 1 National Hunt.It is in the lower divisions of both sports you are more likely to get a problem.
Who was the last football team to win 2 Cup Finals on consecutive days, and show 5 stone & 3 stone improvement on their previous games, respectively?
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I’ve read all nine pages and the most offensive comments I can find are those relating to Football integrity, Sir Mark Prescott and Dutch Art.
This is pure speculation on my part and I’m not accusing My Roy, Mr Fortune or Mr Noseda in any way, shape or form. I’m sure the horse wasn’t tuned up on his seasonal debut as he had bigger fish to fry later in the season. Hmmm…
It’s a shame Mr Noseda’s name came up here. What a joke! Dutch Art was trained by Peter Chapple Hyam. Perhaps you should have approached Mr Hannon a few years later and made similar comments about Canford Cliffs? Conspiracy crud at best.
The comparison between Sir Mark and benefits fraudsters is absolutely laughable. If one of his first starters opens at 8/1 and drifts to 30 on the exchange then I’d question the fools that took single figures in the first place. Not Sir Mark. He doesn’t break any rules and his modus operandi is plain and simple for all to see. As for restricting horse entries based on their bloodlines – the most unworkable suggestion ever! I think some people are dirty on Sir Mark because they cannot get a hold on his methods. That’s their problem and part of the puzzle that needs to be solved.
As for the integrity of Football and other sports there’s very little to say. Humans are involved in these games and are naturally greedy. Integrity will always be the long term loser. Anyone thinking other sports fixtures are less bent than racing may well be kidding themselves that the humans involved have a higher moral code. They don’t!
Finally it’s always been easy to bet on anything to lose. Exchanges make little difference. Every time you bet on anything to win you are also betting that every other contestant will lose.
There’s little doubt jockeys can throw a race independently, and that some occasionally do, (though, even in your own words, it’s infrequent enough for you not to have experienced it at all in recent years).
There’s much less doubt (to anyone who can find their way around a form book – regardless of whether they own horses or not) that it’s a mere drop in the ocean compared to the number of non-triers generally.
If you’re genuinely concerned about ‘justice’ maybe you should direct your ire at the ‘crooks’ who really pull the strings, rather than just taking potshots at their puppets?I have little doubt the BHA have some suspicions about some of the trainers involved in the horses concerned Reet. But they’ve also got to consider what proof they have in their involvement. It must be difficult to proove any trainer is complicit in any wrong doing. It is a lot easier to see the jockey’s moves in the race.
The BHA can not assume guilt by association, like some seem to imply.
Without any proof there is no point in naming them in any investigation. As you say "jockeys can throw a race independantly", where as trainers can’t and may well be totally innocent.
reet hard
is spot on. The BHA, by taking potshots at the puppets, are not tackling the problem of corruption at the roots. And there will always be plenty of young jockeys, keen to get rides, who will do as told by the ‘boss’.
Gingertipster
– some trainers are probably innocent but quite a few are certainly not!
AndRichard
– you don’t need to have been an owner to see a pattern of dodgy rides connected to dodgy trainers who have dodgy owners.
reet hard
is spot on. The BHA, by taking potshots at the puppets, are not tackling the problem of corruption at the roots. And there will always be plenty of young jockeys, keen to get rides, who will do as told by the ‘boss’.
Gingertipster
– some trainers are probably innocent but quite a few are certainly not!
The important word is
"evidence"
.
I agree Nor, some trainersmight
well be guilty of corruption, but if the
evidence
is not good enough there is no point in
charging them
. When jockeys are capable of acting on their own (without trainers consent) it is doubley difficult to get charges to stick as far as trainers are concerned.
So
if
there is little or no evidence against trainers, then it
must
be just the jockeys facing charges.
No matter how enfuriating that is
.
And when there is
little or no evidence
to bring charges against
these trainers
; It would be
unfair
to
presume
the trainers
in this case
, are involved in
any way
.
Value Is EverythingYes,
Gingertipster
, evidence is vital.
That is why jockeys should, if they want to protect themselves, collect the evidence if instructed by the trainer.
Not sure what would be admissable but I would have thought asking the BHA might be a first step, without naming names at that stage.Who are the FA or Premier League to tell Manchester United what their best team is? What Blackpool did earlier in the season is completely different. Holloway made 10 or 11 changes from one game to another. In this case, Sir Alex has rested five or six of his star names in preparation for one of the club’s biggest games in their history.
United currently leading 4-2. That’s some brilliant ‘mutually agreed’ scoreline on Holloway’s part don’t you think Anthony
The FA are no-one to tell teams who which players they allowed to play, the clubs pay the wages & should be allowed to pick who they like) But they did with Blackpool & didn’t with Manchester United, it’s a farce.
Incidentally, you’re looking at the wrong result for the mutually arranged one. That would be Stoke City (owned by the owner of Bet365) losing to Wigan (heavily backed to go down) Allegedly.
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I think the charges are a very positive development. The lower end of the Turf needs a root-and-branch investigation.
As far as I can see there is no will among the upper echelons of law enforcement for such a probe.There’s been a lot of talk on this forum about evidence and proof and so on but of course until charges stick there’s little that can be produced as concrete.
On the other hand what habitual horse player hasn’t watched almost blatant skullduggery, usually in a fairly rubbish race on an all-weather track or obscure – usually northern – turf track at about 8.00pm in some near-deserted betting shop? I certainly have, time and time again.
And it isn’t just the much-produced ‘pocket talk’ argument that is ranged at anyone who dares suggest that there is a hidden narrative to some of the racing we see. Because often enough the horse you spot that isn’t being ridden on its merits is not the one you have backed. But you still turn and laugh sardonically with other betting shop habitues.
I know a bookmaker, who said to me vis a vis lower grade racing: ‘Almost all aspects of it are fixed in some way or another.’
An old boy turned to me in a North London branch of William Hill last winter after we’d watched a typical farce at Wolverhampton. He shook his head sadly and saif: ‘British racing’s in the gutter.’
An old boy turned to me in a North London branch of William Hill last winter after we’d watched a typical farce at Wolverhampton. He shook his head sadly and saif: ‘British racing’s in the gutter.’
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars
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Oscar Wilde is terribly overrated.
Who are the FA or Premier League to tell Manchester United what their best team is? What Blackpool did earlier in the season is completely different. Holloway made 10 or 11 changes from one game to another. In this case, Sir Alex has rested five or six of his star names in preparation for one of the club’s biggest games in their history.
United currently leading 4-2. That’s some brilliant ‘mutually agreed’ scoreline on Holloway’s part don’t you think Anthony
The FA are no-one to tell teams who which players they allowed to play, the clubs pay the wages & should be allowed to pick who they like) But they did with Blackpool & didn’t with Manchester United, it’s a farce.
Incidentally, you’re looking at the wrong result for the mutually arranged one.
That would be Stoke City (owned by the owner of Bet365) losing to Wigan (heavily backed to go down) Allegedly.
That’s some fine bit of after-timing that Anthony. After all 10 games have been concluded you decide to tell us which game was the ‘mutually agreed’ one (even though you said there’ll be mutually agree scorelines ALL ROUND), and indredibly, it went the way your fantasy mutually agreement theory thingy said it would. Well done sir.
And if you think it’s a farce that Manchester United haven’t been punished for Sunday’s line-up then you’re living in an even bigger dreamland than I first thought.
I’ll say it again, Blackpool played one line-up (their ‘perceived’ strongest team) against Everton, then made 10 (possibly even 11, I can’t remember exactly) changes for the game against Villa. Four of the starting line-up against Villa haven’t started a single game since. Blackpool then made another 10 or 11 changes (back to their strongest team) for the game against West Ham.
What Blackpool did against Villa is completely different to what Man Utd did v Blackpool at the weekend.
Man Utd started with their first choice goalkeeper, their first choice left back, their first choice centre-back and captain (Vidic). They also played members of their squad who have featured in many games this season, Scholes, Rafael, Fletcher etc. Oh, and not forgetting they started with Nani, the player who was voted by the players as their player of the season, and they also started with the Premier League’s joint top-goalscorer at the time in Berbatov. And the likes of Carrick, Rooney and Giggs were on the bench.
And Anthony, you’re saying that it’s a farce that they haven’t been treated the same way as Blackpool for what Ian Holloway did.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you’re either a fan of one of the clubs involved in the relegation battle, or you’re a fan of a club that makes you hate Manchester United with a passion. Because quite frankly, there’s no sense to what you are saying.
For the record, I don’t think Blackpool should have been fined earlier in the season, which is why I was adamant that United wouldn’t be punished for resting just five or six of their ‘star’ players.
Anyway, that’s me done on the subject. No hard feelings.
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Another well handicapped Prescott 3yo romps home. The modus operandi is alive and well. The season has just begun!
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