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Ahh ok thanks guys, they’ve been found guilty by the BHA but it’s when they are found guilty by the High Court we can start saying what we like?
Being charged is not the same as being guilty. On the face of it these jockeys have quite a strong defence.It will be interesting to see how the financial evidence turns out because I don’t think videos of rides on their own will be anywhere near enough to get a conviction. Any jockey can have a few bad rides through bad luck or incompetence.
I agree, if you had every jockey down on a list and had to cross off those who had 5 bad rides per month you wouldn’t have a list at all.
What are the horses, does anyone know?
Nobody has been found guilty of anything, not by the BHA or anyone yet.
xxxx! You’ve made all this stuff about presuming guilt without knowing what it’s all about!!!???
It’s all in the link in the first post on this thread.
Value Is EverythingThere is something about this that doesn’t quite sit right with me.
Just a quick scan of Jimmy Quinn’s ride on It’s A Mans World: To (allegedly) conspire to lose a race is pretty rotten, but to to do it so successfully that you only lose by a neck is pretty impressive.
Whether those charged are innocent or guilty remains to be seen.
What I find sad is the jockeys are usually considered to be at the forefront of corruption and take the flak.
A few of them do take matters of winning or losing into their own hands but most do as told by the trainers. They want the rides. And you only have to look at those who have been banned before. Many of them are riding again.Jockeys
Please stop carrying the can. Tell the BHA what is going on. Not sure whether this evidence would be admissable, but with mobile phones, corrupt instructions could be recorded. If enough of you do this, the BHA will have to listen. Do so to protect the youngsters. Make your profession admirable and respected. With your bravery and skill it should be.
My initial reaction when I saw the rides under suspicion was "I can’t remember any of those provoking any comment at the time". Bearing in mind some of the rides that a few of us on here have identified as ‘interesting’ I can only assume there are a lot more of these cases in the pipeline.
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Whether those charged are innocent or guilty remains to be seen.
What I find sad is the jockeys are usually considered to be at the forefront of corruption and take the flak.
A few of them do take matters of winning or losing into their own hands but most do as told by the trainers.I agree they take a lot of the flack but deservedly so, these are grown men and women that know the consequences of riding to not win.
Whats the difference between "This one needs to be switched off and delivered as late as possible" and "Always in rear, never able to challenge" – you could aruge that some trainers can cunningly manipulate the situtation without the jockey even knowing what they’re in the middle of.
Anthonycutt,
If my memory is correct, one of the horses Gary Carter was banned for was beaten a short head.If you go to back a certainty always buy a return ticket.
Believe it or not
Mr Wilson
, instructions are usually more direct.
"Don’t finish in the first four"
"Start slowly and finish middle of the pack".
The above are two exact quotes from trainers, unfortunately not taped. The list is not complete but I forget the exact wording of others. They go along the lines of: ‘We don’t want this winning today’; ‘Take it easy on this one’; ‘Money’s on today’…….
I will repeat my request tothe jockeys
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Don’t be subservient; stop doffing your cap; help clean up racing. It’s a great sport.I’d be absolutely amazed if any of the jockeys charged are actually found guilty.
So what if the horses were layed to lose for big amounts of money. In Obe Gold’s case for example, is it not possible that a lot of people took the same view in that they didn’t think the horse would win?
I’ve watched Kirsty’s ride a thousand times now and there’s absolutely nothing in the way she rode the horse to suggest she deliberately got the horse beat. She must have some talent to get the horse to stumble at the start and cause herself an injury. The horse was then given time to recover but was too far back to do itself any justice, eventually running through the field to finish fourth or fifth.
Put it this way, I see 10 worse rides a day than the oen Kirsty gave Obe Gold.
I haven’t studied the other jockey’s rides, but I’d be staggered if Kirsty gets found guilty of anything. Case wil be dropped in my opinion.
Sadly, racing always has been and always will be corrupt to some degree. In my lifetinme of betting on horse, starting with the Gay Future Coup.
It is not always with low level all weather racing as Dermot Browne exposed many years ago. I beleive he pulled the Champion Hurdle favourite Brown’s Gazette one year.
Here is a link to the BBC story http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s … 491017.stm from 2002.
So in fairness no one should be surprised or disappointed about this recent revelation, but I would imagine as usual in these cases, the charges are extremely difficult if not impossible to prove, so
the jockeys etc will just carry on.If you gamble it is the chance you take, sadly.
As we have seen before in football and recently cricket, where people can gamble there will allways be an element of corruption somewhere, both at the bottom and the top.
That sadly is life.
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Whether those charged are innocent or guilty remains to be seen.
What I find sad is the jockeys are usually considered to be at the forefront of corruption and take the flak.
A few of them do take matters of winning or losing into their own hands but most do as told by the trainers. They want the rides. And you only have to look at those who have been banned before. Many of them are riding again.Jockeys
Please stop carrying the can. Tell the BHA what is going on. Not sure whether this evidence would be admissable, but with mobile phones, corrupt instructions could be recorded. If enough of you do this, the BHA will have to listen. Do so to protect the youngsters. Make your profession admirable and respected. With your bravery and skill it should be.
Agree completely
Probably more than 99 times out of 100 the trainers are complicit in these non-jiggers, and the BHA knows that full well to be the case. However, once again, it’s the jockeys that carry the can, while the authorities choose to deal with those who pass on the information, rather than the actual perpetrators.
Integrity? – my arse.Thanks to everyome for the restraint shown and to Matron for dealing with the one or two isolated issues on the thread.
I’ve been tied up all day and racing at Musselburgh tonight so just logged in. Crikey, you don’t want to take a day off in this game!
To clarify TRF ‘rules’ in this (and similar) instance.
1. No specific allegations of wrong-doing please. Even in this case no one has yet been proven guilty of anything so you cannot say they are (guilty) but you can of course say they have been charged, as per the BHA announcement. Once proven guilty then you can condemn, but not until.
2. Follow rule 1
Common sense and restraint people,whatever your feelings on the matter.
Speaking for myself, I am delighted the BHA are bringing people to account on these issues. It would be tempting, given the potential damage to racing’s image, to have ‘words in ears’ and brush under the carpet but they have tackled it and I’m glad they have.
The surprising thing for me is that no trainers have been implicated. Surely something like this cannot have been happening without trainers being complicit?
Trainers running horses over "wrong trips" as you put it, are doing absolutely nothing wrong. It is up to punters to take a look at breeding and character to see if a horse is likely / unlikely to be suited by the trip. "Nothing is ever done about it" because they are breaking NO rules.
They may not be breaking the written rules, but they most certainly are breaking
unwritten
rules of morality. I’d go as far as to say it is tantamount to manipulating the rules to exploit the loophole.
If you are saying that deliberately running on the wrong ground and over the wrong trip is perfectly acceptable, according to the rules, then you may as well skip the debate and say that you know cheating happens all the time and that nothing can be done to stop it. To go a step further, you may as well just say there is no point in having rules at all as it is impossible to police non-triers.
We may as well just toss out the rulebook and bet exclusively by following the market.- Total Posts 17716
The other side of the coin:
http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=516604&lid=&raceid=&title=Riders+protest+their+innocence&ref=atrPA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Fri
(For those whom Mr W has already hung, drawn, and quartered.
}Drop off your moral high top and get real.
Racing passes the 99% confidence rule.If we cannot read games don’t play them.
I dunno RD – If the rules allow it I don’t think you can use the moral argument against trainers who exploit inefficiencies or loopholes in the ‘system’.
If you watch the Sir Mark Prescott interview with Lydia Hislop on RUK he talks about this very subject. He maintains it is the job of the trainer to find these loopholes and exploit them and it is the job of the authorities to stop them. I find it difficult to argue with that. He uses a taxation argument to support his view (i.e. you pay your accountant to exploit the tax loopholes such that you pay what you owe but no more and no less).
He makes a strong point that he stays within the rules while doing so.
There is a very big moral difference between ‘playing the system’ and moving outside the system.
Drop off your moral high top and get real.
Racing passes the 99% confidence rule.If we cannot read games don’t play them.
… and while the betting public are prepared to factor non-triers into their study, as if it a quaint part of the game, nothing will ever get done about it.
It has f all to do with being able to play the game, and everything to do with the punter getting a fair run for their money.
If you think racing is 99% straight, you are deluded.
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