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Two Horse Race for the Tote

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  • #18184
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    • Total Posts 2432

    Tonight, we say goodbye to the Tote Foundation and the Reuben Brothers, which leaves:

    The Broughton bid (with Andy Stewart and Chris Bell, in support)

    and

    Betfred

    From the Independent Online:

    "The pair have seen off opposition from the Tote board, which had proposed turning the business into a trust for the benefit of racing, and the Reuben Brothers.

    Sir Martin, who is bidding via his Sports Investment Partners vehicle, is working with former Ladbrokes chief executive Chris Bell on a possible accelerated IPO of the Tote.

    To satisfy Government requirements for a racing-friendly bid, Sir Martin envisages giving the industry a stake for a nominal sum and honouring the Tote’s £11m-a-year contribution to the sport.

    Betfred, the bookie owned by Fred Done, should be able to bid more – given it has synergies worth £5m or more a year.

    Sources close to Betfred said "our bid is very committed to the horseracing industry" but declined to elaborate"

    I have a feeling that we’re now firmly stuck between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea. Sigh.

    #349923
    Avatar photoCav
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    • Total Posts 4833

    Pensions and jobs are obviously the big issues, any guilt the government feels towards racing by this betrayal will be assuaged by the lump-sum.

    Both remaining bids seem to be very unclear about future funding commitments to the sport, a very, very bad sign.

    Racing is now entirely at the mercy of self interested profiteers colloquially know as "private enterprise".

    This is usually the point where the well connected city guessers bow out, pockets stuffed for overwhelming underachievement, so I don’t expect Paul Roy to be around for much longer.

    Unlike Saturday, today is the real black day for racing.

    #349924
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    • Total Posts 1402

    I still don’t see why racecourses cannot start up their own on-course tote (kicking out the on-course bookies and the existing tote terminals in the process)?

    #349928
    Avatar photoricky lake
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    Max / Cav …this was always going to be the case , and I was confident of the outcome …we need to get real , racing and the Tote is just another commodity to the Business sector , to the Government its just a pain in the bottom

    Lets get real . racing has to fend for itself and not being dependant on hand outs from others

    Ricky

    #349944
    Avatar phototbracing
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    I still don’t see why racecourses cannot start up their own on-course tote (kicking out the on-course bookies and the existing tote terminals in the process)?

    This was something that I was thinking also, I expect there is a lot more to it, anyone have thoughts on this?

    #349948
    Avatar photoCav
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    Completely agree with you, Ricky, racing does need to fend for itself. I’ve long argued on here that racing should centralize betting by setting up its own high turnover 5% takeout operation and have a couple of mini Grand Nationals every Saturday via the medium of the narrow band handicap and scratchcards. In the absence of a high street betting shop presence, straight away you’d be into the housewife market via the newsagent and the exchange market with a competitive online product. As you’ve mentioned on another post, Betfair are matching a million quid on a gaff track hunter chase at Hexham. Think of the possibilities!

    The BHA have been told umpteen times on here that chasing FTSE 100 companies around tax dodge islands for revenue is nothing more than a

    total

    waste of time. The "racing right" will go the same way, for governments work hand in glove with private enterprise, nor do the bookmakers seem too worried about imminent legislation if Betfair’s recent move offshore is anything to go by. All of this of course is as obvious as the hand on the end of your wrist but for some reason the BHA deems it necessary to part with huge amounts of money to discover realities the hard way.

    At least the Flat racing community is showing some unity and getting results via the tariff (shame on the Jumps brigade and Jeremy Noseda). If the tariff can be amended to close loopholes as they are encountered, it will become a very important means of racing getting a fairer share of media income, which in itself will never be an endless or permanent source of revenue either.

    The Tote Foundation might have gone some way to providing a betting product that had fair prices for its customers, twinned with a sufficient and sustainable income for the sport, which is why I supported it, but alas it seems not the be. As ever the pockets of greedy men will be lined instead.

    Pity.

    #349954
    Avatar photoricky lake
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    Cav , great post …nail on head , the sad part is if we can see it with such clarity , why cant the BHA …I am at a loss to understand why they are so thick :x

    I guess Paul Roy has to go now , maybe with a very small m …the next incumbent will smell the coffee ..and do something worthwhile ..but hope is all I have on that one , it will probably be more bookie baiting and backward steps as normal

    I was flabbergasted yesterday . 1.o4 million on the win , and 145k on the place market at Hexham …Jeeze just imagine if racing could tap into some of that ….on a small Hunter chase race !!! Streuth !!!

    best to you

    Ricky

    #349969
    apracing
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    The current Tote has a legally binding pool betting monopoly, so the courses are tied to them at present.

    A few years back, during one of the earlier half hearted attempts to sell the Tote, it was proposed to end this monopoly, but I don’t believe the legislation went ahead on that.

    As things stand, look out for the Fredpot, the Fraudpot, the Fredxacta, the Fredfecta and the Scouse6. Not to mention the potential horror of adverts with Fred cuddling up to Agnes Haddock.

    Done – we certainly have been,

    AP

    #350003
    Avatar photoanthonycutt
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    As things stand, look out for the Fredpot, the Fraudpot, the Fredxacta, the Fredfecta and the Scouse6. Not to mention the potential horror of adverts with Fred cuddling up to Agnes Haddock.

    AP

    If the Broughton bid wins does that mean we’re going to have a Stewpot?

    Incidentally, if Fred said he would introduce a bet called the Fredxacta, I’d give him the keys right now.

    #350048
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    Paul Roy won’t be at all pleased. He was on record as supporting the Tote Foundation bid as late as last week and has overtly threatened to prevent the new Tote from operating on course.

    Can he do this? Is it legal? I get the impression Fred wants Head office and the shop estate and, as Cav has argued consistently, Broughton, Stewart and Bell want the profits from an IPO, so does this leave an on-course opportunity? Intriguing…

    #350077
    Avatar photoricky lake
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    mAX , Mr Roy should resign instantly , he has been a total failure in my opinion

    Ricky

    #350094
    Warming Trends
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    Was a reason given for rejecting the foundation bid? How closely involved were the BHA in that bid?

    #350156
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    I tend to agree with you on this, Rickster. I called quite loudly for his head after the Betfair share issue scandal last year and my feelings haven’t changed.

    He was also unable to convince Government of the merits of the Tote Foundation approach despite intensive lobbying. It’s hard to come up with a positive about Roy’s tenure at the BHA. I’m sure there must be one.

    Unfortunately, he’s at the helm for the time being. By the time he’s gone, the Tote will be too – a high probability being that it will have moved into bookmaker ownership.

    Warming Trends, I’m prepared to bet that the Tote Foundation bid failed because of the bid price, and also for political reasons expressed in Cav’s post above. We’ll only ever get to know afterward, if at all.

    #350462
    Avatar photorobert99
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    • Total Posts 899

    Compare and contrast with the French PMU who are returning an increased Eu791M to French racing, despite online private competition. That is nearly 10 times what we pay through the bookmakers and 140 times what the UK Tote pays into racing.
    Explain that!

    "French prize-money up as bets boom continues

    BY DESMOND STONEHAM 4:45PM 13 APR 2011

    France: A three per cent increase in prize-money for racing has been confirmed as quarterly figures published by the Pari Mutuel Urbain (off-course tote) suggest France’s betting boom has continued into 2011.

    Figures released this week show total PMU turnover up by 8.3% at €2.58 billion for the first three months of this year with the 12-month figure on course set to hit €10bn for the first time this year.

    While this shows the PMU to be in excellent health in the teeth of a worldwide economic downturn, it is also good news for horseracing in France, which receives approximately 8% of the turnover.

    Such upbeat news for the finances of French racing comes after a set of annual figures for 2010 which featured a turnover increase of 2.6% to €9.54bn.

    More importantly, the return to racing has been revealed as up 8% to €791 million (from €731m), which meant France Galop was able to increase prize-money levels by three per cent for 2011 and with the promise of more to come."

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … rnational/

    #355527
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    If only we’d have gone down this road, Robert99 :roll:

    Couple of things worth discussing from yesterday’s RP:

    As part of the Broughton bid, the BHA have apparently agreed to forego 50% of the sale price of the Tote in order to have a guaranteed seat on the board of the new Tote and a guaranteed minimum annual income of £11m. I’m not sure I like this tactic.

    Yet, Betfred have made "the commercial decision" not to engage with horse racing to the extent of the Broughton bid.

    How can you not engage with horse racing? Surely they should be knocking the BHA’s doors down? I’ve spent the last twenty four hours working out how they got this far in the process with this level of indifference to the sport.

    #355804
    Avatar photoCav
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    Betfred will get it, the jobs at Warrington will swing it for them and if Fred Done is putting up £200 million, he’ll be wanting it back with interest, quick-style.

    The one off payment will take care of the 0.001% of politicians who may just have a guilty conscience over this grand sellout of racing.

    #355805
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    I’ve said this before and still haven’t heard a good reason against it – why can’t racecourses set up their own on-course pool betting operation?

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