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As far as I am aware they still have ‘schooling bumpers’ in Ireland so if you want a nice run round – at nobodys expense but your own – take your horse over there. Our races – whatever type – are governed by rules wherebye you seek to gain the best possible position. If that was not the case, contrary to what has been said, it is a very simple argument and the ban handed out to all and sundry should clearly stand and act as a warning to future transgressions. Is anyone really surprised that Murphy is involved?
On the Berwick Law thread I said that I was surprised that Lydia and Steve did not cast doubts over the merit of that ride. After yesterday I begin to wonder. She was gushing in her praise of his ride on Abragante – a horse who went off favourite and clearly had a ‘ton’ in hand. Are we really saying that no other jockey could have achieved the same result? I might sit up if he is taken out of his comfort zone and has to scrub one along for 3 miles.
As far as I am aware they still have ‘schooling bumpers’ in Ireland so if you want a nice run round – at nobodys expense but your own – take your horse over there.
Don’t they have 27-runner maiden hurdles for the same purpose.
On the Berwick Law thread I said that I was surprised that Lydia and Steve did not cast doubts over the merit of that ride. After yesterday I begin to wonder. She was gushing in her praise of his ride on Abragante
Appreciative of a useful demonstration of how to ride a notably quirky animal, I’d proffer.
Lydia doesn’t really need b*ggerlooks like me to speak for her on this forum, especially as a member of it herself. It does strike me as unlikely, however, that a journalist who has been roundly critical of many aspects of the sport in her newspaper columns, overall broadcasting career and indeed this forum (visit the Q&A session she did last year at https://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68933&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) would have kept shtoom on the Berwick Law incident if she thought there was anything flagrant about it.
– a horse who went off favourite and clearly had a ‘ton’ in hand.
…but who has still been beaten favourite eight times in his life, so it’s never been as simple as “Turns up. Wins” with him.
Are we really saying that no other jockey could have achieved the same result?
All of Abragante’s jumps wins have been attained held up under Timmy Murphy. Paul Flynn gained a bumper win on him in March 05 when the gelding was still trained by Bob Woodhouse, and that was from a more prominent position. By Christ it was hard work for all involved, though, and the gelding’s record since then when ridden more prominently than midfield stands at 0-3, including once under Murphy himself.
As regards rider rather than tactics, is also noted that none of McCoy, Moore or Scudamore could get a win out of Abragante in four efforts between them, in none of which was the gelding set an unrealistic task or unfancied (2-5F, 3-1, 5-1, 13-2JF).
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
How hard can it be to sit still on a horse and do nothing? I’m sure plenty of jocks could have won on Abragante yesterday, he has been a very slow learner and when the likes of McCoy et al were beaten on him he was still very backward mentally. Murphy did everything right yesterday, by doing nothing, but how hard was that on a horse perhaps 20lbs+ well in? Probably a 150 chaser in the making.
If Lydia doesn’t need anyone to defend her then why do it?
It is for the very fact that she often appears outspoken that I raised the doubts. It is not so hard to believe that professional pundits have their own favourites just like anyone else.
You appear an expert at giving half a story. David Johnson paid 90,000 for the horse so either he was poorly advised or he didn’t look quite as much of a ‘dog’ as you have suggested. Timmy Murphy’s record on the horse is 6/13 while the others jockeys you have mentioned were 0/4 (three places and the only one who has ridden the horse recently was Scudamore who finished third on unsuitably heavy ground). Personally I think that proves nothing in terms of the merit of Murphy’s ride.
AP has just pulled up on 2 favs in a row at MR. Must be pretty blatent for you Hanger 18 chaps.
Shorties trained by Jonjo – don’t you just luv ’em
Over-rated, over-bet and …erm…averagely trained is the only explanation required
It is not so hard to believe that professional pundits have their own favourites just like anyone else.
By dint of their being more erudite or willing to be interviewed and generate copy, of course pundits are going to “have favourites” within the owning, training and riding ranks. That fact in itself doesn’t automatically amount to the same as turning a blind eye to anything dodgy. In saying otherwise you or anyone else would be implying that these pundits are at best unprofessional and at worst institutionally corrupt. Consider just where you’re going with this.
You appear an expert at giving half a story.
Half? I’m improving, then.
It’d still be half more than crying “cheat!!” and offering no basis beyond that cry, which as previously said ought to be the preserve of Other Forums and not here.David Johnson paid 90,000 for the horse so either he was poorly advised or he didn’t look quite as much of a ‘dog’ as you have suggested.
Johnson stumped up after the gelding had run just the once for Bob Woodhouse. How many quirky horses do betray their quirkiness first time out? You’d have to go a little way into the career of the likes of Ouninpohja, Carthy’s Cross, and many other current naughty boys before any such traits come to the fore. Broader still, does one ever learn all there is to know about a horse after just one racecourse appearance?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
AP has just pulled up on 2 favs in a row at MR. Must be pretty blatent for you Hanger 18 chaps.
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
[ AP said "I don’t ever bet in bumpers and wouldn’t ever recommend that anybody else should do so.]
I agree. I only bet on the Champion Bumper at Cheltenham when there is some form to go on…and the market often tells the story.
But even then I don’t get too involved.Paradoxically, I think that the incidents that the stewards pick up on are unlikely to be true cases of "pulling" or of a horse "not being off".
I didn’t see the race in question, but from what I can gather from the posts above, it was a small field, hardly the sort of race where you think you can give your horse a "quiet one" and it not being picked up.
It would be a particularly artless jockey who would be picked up by our stewards.
As has been said above, like it, or not, there are dozens of horses in a week who are not there to win the race they are running in.
For a lot of us, it is part of the "intrigue" and "attraction" of the sport. Spot the triers is a fun game to play.
Whether this should be the state of play or not, I’ll leave for others to judge, but to think it isnt, is probably naive at best and possibly foolish at worst…………….and undoubtedly costly.
Colin
Seabird
Naive, foolish and costly it most certainly is.
Thing is increasing numbers of punters THE PEOPLE WHO PAY FOR THE SPORT think horseracing in general is naive foolish and costly.
Dont believe me…heres a quote from the Chairman of the levyboard,"it becomes increasingly difficult to predict the future in our sport especially where its funding is concerned" or Mr Ricketts at the levyboard "Among the minuses were another reduction in levy income, a furthur fall in British horseracings share of the betting market with a consequent reduction in the boards contribution to prizemoney in 2007."
And when you get high profile jockeys like Murphy never putting his horse within 12 lengths at any stage, never making an effort at any stage and taking his horse so wide on the second circuit he could almost have been in the West Sussex countryside and not even receive the maximum penalty from the stewards for defrauding the punters THE PEOPLE WHO PAY FOR THE SPORT it just hammers another nail into racings coffin.
The BHB can talk up Royal Ascot, Cheltenham, increased racecourse attendence all they like but the fact is racing needs betting, the sport has a symbiotic relationship with the betting industry. Horseracing depends so much on betting for its appeal to the average viewer. There may be a few obsessives who would watch the racing at an all-weather track on a wet Tuesday purely because they enjoy watching horses running around quite slowly — but, in truth, this stuff has no aesthetic or emotional appeal for anyone but the punter craving some action, any action at all, to get him through the long afternoon.
Which was fine beacuae whether is was bent or not in the past there was nothing else happening in the world of sport in years gone by to bet on. The phenomenon of internet gambling, the live TV coverage of all kinds of sport, and the incendiary combination of these technologies, is changing that world almost by the hour. Bookmaker turnover on horseracing has halved. Thats a massive, massive drop and its happened in a stunningly short space of time.
Racing is now just one of many sports that you can bet on and most of these events involve humans whose actions are perhaps slightly more predictable than those of horses, especially bad horses. And some of these events, a cricket match between India and Pakistan, a champions league football match or a million-dollar golf tournament — might even be worth watching if you didn’t have money on them.
"It matters more if there’s money on it," the Sky slogan says.
Unfortunately, most racing doesn’t matter at all if there’s no money on it. And it will matter even less to increasing numbers of people who bet on it while it continues to ignore the commercial realities of the modern world and panders to insiders as the stewards at Fontwell did last week.
Its all very well to say dont bet on those races or "it happens get on with it" but people need to see the cause and effect the Murphy/Gifford/Stewards incident has on the big picture for horseracing going into an already uncertain future.
I think there are bigger evils in the game than connections who run their horses down the course.
Namely, off-course bookmakers.
They are the ones who have siphoned off money from the sport over the years, that is why racegoers have to pay ridiculous entrance fees to get into watch the sport.
Colin
But look on the bright side CR, we’ll all be dead soon!
But in all seriousness, I agree with the notion that racing and the betting industry are hoplessly intertwined, and the later has adapted and branched out over the last few years whereas the former has not. The bookmakers now rely less on racing than racing does on them, and that can only be bad news for the sport.
Incidents like the one being discussed did most likely happen 30 years ago, but back then disgruntled punters had nowhere else to go to fritter their hard-earned cash. Nowadays, there is a plethora of other media by which to gamble, and someone suitably disillusioned by racing and it’s incestuous attitude can go elsewhere.
Racing needs a complete revamp in the way it us run, not just in the stewards room. If you look at how the sport has modernised in the last 15-20 years compared to just about anything else, it will perform badly. This is why racing is in decline, because it doesn’t appeal to ‘the kids’, not beacuase Timmy Murphy didn’t get the maximum ban.Hi Friggo
Hopefully I’ve many more Cheltenham festivals left in me yet
I genuinely care about the sport and agree with most of your sentiments.
Cavelino,
Please do not keep on repeating the hoary chestnut that punters pay for the sport. Regrettably they pay less than £90 ( through the levy) million out of the total cost of £400 million of keeping horses in training. This figure is falling because it is raised through the levy which is falling.
The big funders of the sport are the owners and always have been long before off course betting was legalised roughly 50 years ago.
That is not to say that racing should not be straight for everyones benefit – not least the owners.
Paradoxically, I think that the incidents that the stewards pick up on are unlikely to be true cases of "pulling" or of a horse "not being off".
I didn’t see the race in question, but from what I can gather from the posts above, it was a small field, hardly the sort of race where you think you can give your horse a "quiet one" and it not being picked up.
It would be a particularly artless jockey who would be picked up by our stewards.
As has been said above, like it, or not, there are dozens of horses in a week who are not there to win the race they are running in.
For a lot of us, it is part of the "intrigue" and "attraction" of the sport. Spot the triers is a fun game to play.
Whether this should be the state of play or not, I’ll leave for others to judge, but to think it isnt, is probably naive at best and possibly foolish at worst…………….and undoubtedly costly.
Colin
You are absolutely spot on and it’s refreshing to read something from someone who obviously has a good understanding of the game.
Talking NH Here, If an owner is going for a touch it is mostly novice hurdlers and that’s the place to look out for them. Don’t expect them to be in the first 10 either. you don’t want any "Finished well" reports stuck to your name. If you hear the word "Strong" being barterred about you can forget any touch you have planned. He’ll be 12/1 in the papers and open up a 5/2 on the course the day he’s off.
The Stewards will very seldom pick on on these horses unless it is sticking out like a sore thumb. Other people like sports writers, the bookies, Jockeys are the guys who can spot them with their eyes shut.
Spotting one yourself and waiting for the day it’s off is alot of fun. It’s not something all of us can do. The normal punter will see a horse under pressure and the jockey give him a few smacks round the backside to try and get him into the race.
What they have actually seen is a very good actor whipping fresh air and saying "steady son" That is why they are called professional Jockeys.
Who ever said the camera never lies was a fool and should start going racing
It’d still be half more than crying “cheat!!” and offering no basis beyond that cry, which as previously said ought to be the preserve of Other Forums and not here.
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