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I guess this could do with a debate of it’s own, but instead of me going through it again, I will just copy what I posted on another thread;
Yes I spotted that but didn’t want to start a new thread in case of being shot down
I backed the horse, and was absolutely appalled by the ride, so much so that I couldn’t be happier that a big name jock like Timmy Murphy got a 20 day ban.
Now ask yourself Timmy, was deliberately cheating worth a 20 day ban?
I hope that the ban hits you hard in the pocket (though I doubt it), just like backing the horse hit me in the pocket.
Justice for a non trier at last.
Mike
ps: so looking forward to the opinions of you guys who think ‘looking after the horse’ is more important than trying to win the race. Credit to the Fontwell Stewards for having the balls to take actions, when so many courses are shi!t scared to do so
Timmy Murphy has been ‘easy’ on horses on a number of occasions in recent seasons – particularly when riding for Henrietta Knight, take a look at the ride he gave chase debutant El Vaquero a couple of years ago – and it is seemingly justice done with such antics finally being punished. But having said that Murphy is far from the worst perpetrator of (apparent) non-trying and the length of the ban looks to be more of a general warning, rather than the culmination and/or severity of previous offences.
I wouldn’t fancy taking bets on the Fontwell stewards’ decision being reduced or overturned on appeal though. It seems to be the done thing with top flight racing folk these days, punish them and then say ‘sod it, we’ll let you off, even though your reasons for not trying are complete tosh’.
I don’t think for one minute they stopped this horse for financial gain and I think the ban is harsh.
The winner is obviuosly useful starting at odds on.
Murphy’s mount was unfancied and probably no where near 100%
Where the problems arise is the horse runs better than they expect and the Jockey has been told "go easy on him he will need the run"
Next thing you know we are all shouting non trier.
Keep in mind 10 lengths is a lot of ground to make up plus get into a fight fit with a much fitter animal and go on and win.
Probably the horse wouldn’t have won but I am not saying it’s right. Many people would have there cash on EW and they deserve better. Murphy must have **** for brains, if he could have finished 3rd, he should have done so.
If you are going to deliberatly stop a horse you make sure he is tucked away behind a few other horses and can’t go anywhere. you don’t run him in a race of this size for the whole world to see.
It’s not as if he is an unexposed animal you can have a massive touch on.
What I am saying is **** Happens and sometimes horses run better than you expect. But when you are told to do something in racing you do it or simply you won’t be riding for long.
Question: is there any truth in the rumour the stewards asked Timmy Murphy " what instructions were you given? and he supposedly replied "I was told to hold him up" Then the stewrds asked "When were you supposed to make your move?" and Timmy replied "at Wetherby next week"
The old one’s are the best.
Stoute did not win hisFlorimund appeal last summer and got his fine increased by K2 to K8.5.
Murphy got 17 days for yesterday and 3 days for his second breach between 12 and 24 months.
I think Mikkymo should be banned for 20 days for starting a thread without any details , i mean if you could find the time to add the name of the horse it would make reading and understanding much easier!!
The horse was ASHLEYS PETALE
Trainer was fined 4,000 and horse banned for 40 days (So they miss Wetherby
)If i was Murphy i wouldn`t consider appealing, i would simply consider making more effort in future!!
I wonder which of the top ten jockeys “pull up“ most, must be close between Murphy and Lee!
I think Mikkymo should be banned for 20 days for starting a thread without any details , i mean if you could find the time to add the name of the horse it would make reading and understanding much easier!!
The horse was ASHLEYS PETALE
Trainer was fined 4,000 and horse banned for 40 days (So they miss Wetherby
)If i was Murphy i wouldn`t consider appealing, i would simply consider making more effort in future!!
I wonder which of the top ten jockeys “pull up“ most, must be close between Murphy and Lee!
Lol Tony, my apologies
MM,
On what basis would you make a bet on an unraced horse in a mares only bumper on fast ground at Fontwell ?
These races are specifically designed and intended to be ‘schooling’ races – that’s the whole point of them.
AP
MM,
On what basis would you make a bet on an unraced horse in a mares only bumper on fast ground at Fontwell ?
These races are specifically designed and intended to be ‘schooling’ races – that’s the whole point of them.
AP
Sorry AP, I couldn’t disagree more.
Yes they are designed to ‘educate’ a horse about racing, but they still should be trying to obtain their best possible finish.
The races are not designed to ‘school’ a horse, give it a hack round and not try an inch. In fact, it’s an offence under the rules of racing to do so, and being an owner, I would have thought you knew that – this is why TM copped a 20 day non-triers ban.
Regarding my bet, it was a fun each way bet based on nothing and is totally irrelevant to this debate. If I hadn’t have had a bet I would still have the same feelings about TM’s ride on the horse.
Whilst some might say it’s becoming a bit boring, all these ‘non-triers’ threads, it’s becoming equally boring that people come out and defend the rides by saying things like, the race is for ‘schooling’, the horse is a baby having it’s first run, the horse was a 2 year old etc etc.
While I am all for the welfare of horses, I am of the opinion that if a racehorse is entered into any race governed by our rules of racing, then it should be trying it’s best to obtain the best possible finish – if this means pushing the horse, or giving it a crack with the whip, then so be it. Remember there are whip rules that protect a horse from being hit too often.
Mike
MM,
You are assigning opinions to me which I haven’t expressed. I can’t see anywhere in my post that it says I approve of non triers and as an owner, I’m well aware of the rules thank you.
I was simply mystified as to why anybody would want to bet in such a race.
AP
AP,
Apologies if you think I misread your post.
You have to realise that everyone is different, and while you wonder why people would want to bet on these races,at the same time, someone might wonder why anyone would bet on a 4m4f handicap chase, consisting of 40 horses that have never ran over the trip before.
Like wise, I wonder;
Why do people bet on Strictly Come Dancing?
Why do people bet on who will be the next French Prime Minister?I had a blind bet on TM’s horse without even looking at the racecard. I was up on the day, and put some cash aside for another bet. It just so happened that this was the next betting opportunity. If the next betting opportunity was 2 spiders climbing a wall I might have had a bet on that, as I was playing with bookies money.
My bet was totally irrelevant and had no influence on me expressing my opinions regarding TM’s ban, but I hope I’ve answered your question from my perspective. Obviously I can’t tell you why other people bet in these races.
Mike
AP
Perhaps you need to read your rulebook again. Schooling in not allowed under the rules of which the race was run therefore there was no such thing as a "schooling race" yesterday.
Once again the people who pay for the sport have a fraud perpreted against them.
If you want to school your horse in public then why not introduce specific "schooling races" with betting on them not permitted.
CR,
I don’t think I need lectures on the rules. I’m well aware of the rules on schooling in public and non triers.
Go back and read the post again – I’m simply asking why anyone would want to bet on a race that is designed for schooling inexperienced horses.
‘Schooling’ equals ‘educating’ equals ‘giving experience’.
Personally I already have introduced non betting races – I don’t ever bet in bumpers and wouldn’t ever recommend that anybody else should do so.
AP
AP
I’m not giving you a lecture and I did read your post. Could you please direct me to the rule for races that are "specifically designed and intended to be ‘schooling’ races" please?
The definition of schooling thats being discussed on this thread is the HRA version, dont cloud it with your own.
Where, in the opinion of the Stewards or the HRA, a Trainer has sent any horse in his care to race with a view to schooling or conditioning the Trainer shall be guilty of an offence. Where a Rider is found in breach of Rule 157 because he was found to have been schooling and conditioning the horse, the Trainer shall be deemed guilty of an offence under Sub-Rule (ii) above unless he satisfies the Stewards or the HRA that the Rider was given by him or on his behalf instructions which complied with Sub-Rule (ii) and that the Rider failed to comply with them.
The punters who did their money on a non trier yesterday dont care what races you bet on.
CR
Whilst some might say it’s becoming a bit boring, all these ‘non-triers’ threads, it’s becoming equally boring that people come out and defend the rides
Arguably the former is both the more boring and potentially also the more damaging.
If there are incidents of non-trying identified, and proven beyond all reasonable doubt, then so be it. But those who scream foul on a near-daily basis need to understand that every time they do so without a cast-iron case to back up their claims, they arguably run the risk of drawing further needless negative attention to the credibility of a sport that has had enough high-profile aspersions (proven or otherwise) cast at it in recent times.
It’s the work of seconds for someone to make a claim of foul play, but the work of longer to educate (or remind) the same person of what other factors may have influenced a cosmetically dubious performance. The latter will always rate a worthwhile expenditure of effort in my book.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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