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Timeform join the watering debate

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  • #21340
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 102

    About time

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/ma … g-racedays

    As usual the authorities go on the defensive

    #398148
    robert99
    Participant
    • Total Posts 899

    This really made me smile:

    "His opinion was echoed by Goodwood’s chief executive, Adam Waterworth, who could not imagine being able to stage the five-day "Glorious" meeting at the end of July without watering during a rain-free week.

    "I can understand the arguments to let nature take its course," he said. "But we race on chalk on the top of a hill. By the time the Saturday came round, I don’t think we would be able to race without horses getting jarred up, and nobody wants that.

    Bath races on top of a hill of chalk downlands exactly the same as Goodwood. They do not have any means of watering, have never watered and the grass that thrives in those conditions is a springy downland turf that does not need watering to grow or for horses to gallop safely upon it without jar. If you artificially water after dry conditions at Goodwood then the roots cannot hold so well within the now mushy thin surface crust, as that is where the moisture and nutrients are – there are no deeper roots in the chalk below. Downland turf has evolved its root system to hold and to be able to withstand drought conditions without watering.

    #398153
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 102

    The Irony of it all is that the racehorse is more likely to race on faster ground at the Cheltenham festival rather than Glorious Goodwood.

    You’d have thought that the place was like the killing fields in the 70s and 80s

    #398162
    Miss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1335

    What sort of grass do they use that magically turns into a dust bowl after one rainless week?

    #398227
    Miss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1335

    Here’s something interesting from a local racetrack, known for their stellar turf courses. A controlled burn. Made easier by the unseasonably warm weather we’ve been having.
    http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ … set-ablaze

    Like almost all US courses, they use hardy Bermuda grass.

    #398230
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    This really made me smile:

    "His opinion was echoed by Goodwood’s chief executive, Adam Waterworth, who could not imagine being able to stage the five-day "Glorious" meeting at the end of July without watering during a rain-free week.

    "I can understand the arguments to let nature take its course," he said. "But we race on chalk on the top of a hill. By the time the Saturday came round, I don’t think we would be able to race without horses getting jarred up, and nobody wants that.

    Bath races on top of a hill of chalk downlands exactly the same as Goodwood. They do not have any means of watering, have never watered and the grass that thrives in those conditions is a springy downland turf that does not need watering to grow or for horses to gallop safely upon it without jar. If you artificially water after dry conditions at Goodwood then the roots cannot hold so well within the now mushy thin surface crust, as that is where the moisture and nutrients are – there are no deeper roots in the chalk below. Downland turf has evolved its root system to hold and to be able to withstand drought conditions without watering.

    Bath Racecourse often had officially "hard" until the BHA said racecourses should avoid producing hard ground. Other than "in places" can’t remember it being officially "hard" since. Strange that, considering there’s no watering system. :roll: Britain must be a wetter place than it used to be. :lol: Either that or…

    Those chaps at Bath must do a cracking job.

    What was the reason for Bath Racecourse not being allowed to race around the bends recently?

    Value Is Everything
    #398232
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    About time

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/ma … g-racedays

    As usual the authorities go on the defensive

    Timeform have been against over watering for some time Zilzal. Just not put it quite in these terms before.

    Value Is Everything
    #398285
    robert99
    Participant
    • Total Posts 899

    What sort of grass do they use that magically turns into a dust bowl after one rainless week?

    Not that you really want to know. 8)

    They use a repair mix something like this:

    40% Melbourne Perennial Ryegrass

    30% Sanermo Perennial Ryegrass

    10% Ponderosa Perennial Ryegrass

    20% Mocassin Slender Creeping Red Fescue

    it is a lush, coarse leaf mix that germinates and grows fast, crushes under hoof fall, has litle root anchorage and needs far more water to survive on chalk. Only the 20% fescue component provides any cushion.

    #398380
    Steeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5783

    It always tickles me that there is no watering at Bath.

    What next, no oxygen at Ayr?

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #398388
    ricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2999

    interesting indeed , however what if : we get a prolonged dry spell and the national has to be run on good to firm (watered )

    I can see the animal aid guys (including the RSPCA) rubbing their hands in anticipation

    I would rather see the entire card scrapped than give these idiots (imo ) more ammunition to shoot jump racing down

    one wonders with drought watering restrictions (albeit Liverpool should have loads )what A, Aintree will do , and B , what the BHA will do

    Ricky

    #398390
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    Ricky – RSPCA aren’t the ‘animal aid guys’ or anything like it.

    #398395
    ricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2999

    That is your opinion Corm , mine is different , cast your mind back to the statement issued by the Rspca on the latest whip rule changes , read it again , ……A black day for the racing industry …… then tell me where I am wrong !!!, it was a disgraceful knee jerk reaction , probably very much akin to an animal aid stance (imo )

    cheers

    Ricky

    #398407
    Miss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1335

    interesting indeed , however

    what if : we get a prolonged dry spell and the national has to be run on good to firm (watered )

    I can see the animal aid guys (including the RSPCA) rubbing their hands in anticipation

    I would rather see the entire card scrapped than give these idiots (imo ) more ammunition to shoot jump racing down

    one wonders with drought watering restrictions (albeit Liverpool should have loads )what A, Aintree will do , and B , what the BHA will do

    Ricky

    What on earth is wrong with good to firm? Surely that’s "better" than firm ground?

    Trainers might want to start toughening up the horses legs now in preparation. :roll: .

    #398456
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    interesting indeed , however

    what if : we get a prolonged dry spell and the national has to be run on good to firm (watered )

    I can see the animal aid guys (including the RSPCA) rubbing their hands in anticipation

    I would rather see the entire card scrapped than give these idiots (imo ) more ammunition to shoot jump racing down

    one wonders with drought watering restrictions (albeit Liverpool should have loads )what A, Aintree will do , and B , what the BHA will do

    Ricky

    What on earth is wrong with good to firm? Surely that’s "better" than firm ground?

    Trainers might want to start toughening up the horses legs now in preparation. :roll: .

    Very little trainers can do in that department Miss Woodford. Good-firm may be better than firm ground, but still not good enough for Aintree. Racing thoroughbreds around 90 degree corners on a firm surface is unacceptable (imo). Hope if it is on the firm side of good, any trainer with a round actioned galloper pulls their horse out.

    Value Is Everything
    #398470
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4823

    My sympathy lies increasingly with Clerks on the issue. Look at the hassle and withdrawals William Derby had to put with at The Dante meeting a few years back.

    He didn’t water the week before racing. :)

    #398488
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    From an owner’s POV we certainly don’t want to be running our horses on ‘unsafe’ ground whether because it is too firm; is loose on top; or is simply in poor condition.

    I think it’s a myth that certain horses ‘like’ fast ground. Certainly there are horses whose action enables them to act better on fast ground than others but the concussive effect of metal plated hooves striking firm ground doesn’t suit any horse.

    Good ground should be what all courses aim to produce.

    As to whether watering close to a meeting produces ground that is ‘loose’, I would have thought that to produce turf with shallow roots would be caused by constantly giving a little bit of water so that the roots never need to grow down in search of it. I cannot believe that flat tracks aren’t able to give their turf dry spells when the roots can be encouraged to take hold. Once the root system is down there then presumably watering close to a meeting isn’t such an issue?

    #398501
    Oasisdreamer
    Participant
    • Total Posts 305

    Surely flat racecourses should be trying to produce a racing surface in line with the prevalent weather conditions, i.e. Good to firm ground in dry conditions?

    What is most frustrating (and costly) is making an entry on a Monday for a race the following weekend when the forecast is for dry weather and the ground is described as good to firm. Come declarations on the Thursday the course has been watering and now describe the ground as good. Some horses just cannot act on loose ground but it’s only come raceday that you know the ground is too soft. By that time an entry fee, jockey fee, transport to course have all been paid for.

    I don’t see what, if anything, courses can do to improve the ground when it turns soft naturally and aids those horses that prefer those conditions. Therefore it is most unfair on horses that prefer top of the ground when courses water good to firm ground down to good ground.

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