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lso, watering must, by definition, produce irregular and variable patches and I wonder if it is the lack of underfoot consistency that sometimes catches horses out?
Well said that man , this misinformation is indeed the bugbear of all punters , with a few exceptions (Andrew Cooper and the man from Ponte
}they all do it , punters are put away until they discover the truth too late …imo of course …..Ricky
If you don’t want to apologise then don’t.
I took your comment for what it was, a patronising critique of my posts on this forum.I’ve no wish to upset you Ginger so apology offered, genuinely and sincerely
Hope we can now put this ‘misunderstanding’ behind us and carry on our banter in the time-honoured friendly, if slightly tortured manner, we always have
Yours in sport
DroneAnd thank you Robert for that detailed reply
Struggling to see your comments as "freindly" or how they could be misunderstood. But in the interests of the forum, apology accepted Drone.
Will endeavour to block this thread out of my mind and treat every post on its own merits.Mark
Value Is EverythingBack to the subject.
It does seem that those criticising "watering" are criticising bad watering, either over or inconsistent watering, which we are all against.Salisbury seem to do a great job in recent years, they never over water and keep trainers informed on the state of the ground. Never seen the grass in a better state last year.
York and Newmarket seem to do a poor job, very inconsistent/patchy. Is to do with the wind blowing droplets? Being in the middle of wide open countryside at these two courses.
Value Is EverythingBack to the subject.
It does seem that those criticising "watering" are criticising bad watering, either over or inconsistent watering, which we are all against.Salisbury seem to do a great job in recent years, they never over water and keep trainers informed on the state of the ground. Never seen the grass in a better state last year.
York and Newmarket seem to do a poor job, very inconsistent/patchy. Is to do with the wind blowing droplets? Being in the middle of wide open countryside at these two courses.
GingerT,
This seems to be an outcome of modern life:
Every aspect is simplified to an extreme of black and white – whilst reality is all shades of grey.(Not a polarity state of mind that a punter hoping to be succesful should ever stray into.)
There has been a couple of decades without apprenticeships and training and whole rafts of skilled people have retired leaving the rest struggling. In racing for example, John Sharratt died recently with his first class race reading skills entirely lost to racing. The recent going based abandonment farces at Ayr are another.
People are more than ever afraid to speak up to say what is right or they face losing their jobs.
Public Relations make lieing into the "right thing to do" to protect an image rather than by making a good image by doing the right thing in the first place. Managements without knowledge nor interest of what their organisations are actually doing do not know have any clue as to the correct way to do things in the first place.
So the groundstaff do what they are told.
The Clerks do what they think the trainers and authorities want and take a chance that the weather forecasts are right.
No one ever got fired by (over) watering even if it is the wrong thing to do for horse welfare, turf and racing.York even with the turf improvements should avoid watering at all costs as the water table is so high and the slightest overdoing, plus natural rain and the course cuts up into a mess. Modern day pressures force their hand into doing the wrong thing.
Newmarket is too wide to waste costly water where horse probably won’t run so they do it in strips. They put too little on to make much difference to safety but they mess the grass rootage up no end. They pay lip service to PR pressure and "efficiency savings".
Salisbury possibly have a sensible Clerk who leaves what is needed to the expertise of the groundsmen and will back them to the hilt – and that seems to be working very well. UK used to work like that in the past.
All three courses are entirely different and need different treatments – there is no black and white, one size fits all simplification rule in real life.
York even with the turf improvements should avoid watering at all costs as the water table is so high and the slightest overdoing, plus natural rain and the course cuts up into a mess. Modern day pressures force their hand into doing the wrong thing.
York are watering already, and during the day under this particularly strong sun we’ve had recently
They’re slitting the 6f course today
What is the point of watering during the day? Utterly pointless and down to sheer laziness. After York produced appalling ground for the Ebor meeting last year by over-watering they have obviously not learnt a thing from their mistakes.
I have found Chester to be the best flat course at providing accurate, timely and descriptive going information from 5 day entry stage.
I suggested to the BHA Racing Inspectorate that the information Chester provide on going and rail movements is used as the industry standard.
Ripon is simply laughable. From memory the BHA site was not updated all week in advance of a Saturday meet last season and the going remained at good (watering to maintain) with the same going stick reading all week. Plus they don’t update their own website either and then wonder why you call the racecourse for updated going information!!
Goodwood are not far behind Ripon with comments on the morning of the Friday of Glorious meeting stating "Due to drying conditions yesterday there was selective watering last night." This is no good to man or beast and will be interesting to see if they raise their game this flat season.
Looking at today’s going descriptions I would give Ludlow a big thumbs up and put the detail on a par with what Chester normally provide. Hopefully the RI have had a word in the ear of the courses and we’ll see an improvement in the info this flat season.
With regard loose ground imagine running on firm ground yourself then hitting a muddy area. The first thing you are likely to do is slow down or hesitate or change your stride. I’ve no doubt it’s the same for horses and is a contributor to racing related injuries. Of course proving this is a different matter entirely.
Exeter (which is currently described as Firm) has abandoned its chases for next Wednesday’s card. They’ve also announced ‘Watering with tankers starts Monday’. I dread to think what going will be produced as a result come Wednesday.
- Total Posts 102
this was meant to be about flat racing, you know the sport that in the Southern hemisphere that horses race on a far faster surface than we do.
But it seems ok for horses of lower quality to be risked on tracks such as Taunton where going has often be described as g/f
- Total Posts 102
And you only have to look at Doncasters history of going stick readings on turftrax to see that a lot of clerks are either guessing or not using the stick properly
this was meant to be about flat racing, you know the sport that in the Southern hemisphere that horses race on a far faster surface than we do.
But it seems ok for horses of lower quality to be risked on tracks such as Taunton where going has often be described as g/f
I wonder if part of the issue is the type of horseshoes used in this country?
I’d be interested to hear from someone who’s an expert on such matters as to why horses in this country aren’t routinely shod with cushioned racing plates to mitigate the potentially jarring effect of firm ground.
Taunton has had to give up its fixture on 12th April (it’s being transferred to Newton Abbot) because of the lack of rainfall.
Could this be the first time ever a course has had to give up a fixture in April due to firm ground?
We’re going well so far with the Good (watered) description at Doncaster on Saturday…..
Underfoot conditions were also blamed for the defeat of Edinburgh Knight whose trainer Paul d’Arcy said: "I am thrilled with Edinburgh Knight’s great run under top weight. Pat Smullen is convinced over-watered ground did not help."
We’re going well so far with the Good (watered) description at Doncaster on Saturday…..
Underfoot conditions were also blamed for the defeat of Edinburgh Knight whose trainer Paul d’Arcy said: "I am thrilled with Edinburgh Knight’s great run under top weight. Pat Smullen is convinced over-watered ground did not help."
Watching the finishes on Saturday certainly suggested the ground was much more testing than good.
Taunton has had to give up its fixture on 12th April (it’s being transferred to Newton Abbot) because of the lack of rainfall.
Could this be the first time ever a course has had to give up a fixture in April due to firm ground?
This seems crazy to me. Here races will go off turf
if it gets too wet
. Soft/yielding turf gets ripped up a lot faster and the turf here gets more wear and tear. You’ll rarely see yielding turf except in stakes races. This can be tough to balance for stewards-on the one hand you have horses who will scratch if it’s off turf (and some who are listed as "main track only") but on the other hand some will scratch if the turf comes up too soft
This is as wet a turf course as I’ve ever seen in the US. I believe that all other turf races on the card were run on the main track, but this being a GI they let it stay on. Madness ensued.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibQrf7GRPs
Check out the fractions. For reference, Standardbreds can trot a mile in 1:48.Taunton has had to give up its fixture on 12th April (it’s being transferred to Newton Abbot) because of the lack of rainfall.
Could this be the first time ever a course has had to give up a fixture in April due to firm ground?
This seems crazy to me. Here races will go off turf
if it gets too wet
. Soft/yielding turf gets ripped up a lot faster and the turf here gets more wear and tear. You’ll rarely see yielding turf except in stakes races. This can be tough to balance for stewards-on the one hand you have horses who will scratch if it’s off turf (and some who are listed as "main track only") but on the other hand some will scratch if the turf comes up too soft
This is as wet a turf course as I’ve ever seen in the US. I believe that all other turf races on the card were run on the main track, but this being a GI they let it stay on. Madness ensued.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibQrf7GRPs
Check out the fractions. For reference, Standardbreds can trot a mile in 1:48.You’re absolutely right, Miss Woodford. We have the worst of both worlds here – racing on soft ground (thus cutting up the turf) and then racing on the same turf once it’s dried out (thus producing a rough uneven surface). My local course (Warwick) suffers particularly from this as it stages NH racing in the winter and flat racing in the summer. Next Monday’s meeting is due to be run on firm ground which is likely to be unsafe after the winter’s NH racing has left it in poor condition.
}they all do it , punters are put away until they discover the truth too late …imo of course …..
For reference, Standardbreds can trot a mile in 1:48.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.