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…. by one of the brave anonymous posters
A bit like you then Patrick?
how very anonymous of you, Mr…..erm…..Ostermeyer. My surname’s Delargy, should anyone need to know. I believe the thread starter is a bit of an Alcoe.
I note you still have not answered my earlier post:
"Could you explain what you meant by this remark, Barry?
barry dennis wrote:eddie case, 16/1 into 10/1 , your wrong, who cares, guesser."
The horse moved from 16/1 into 10/1. That is what eddie case stated and that is what happened. Or do you have another version?
You could avoid wasting so much of your own, as well as others’, time if you only took the slightest trouble to make yourself understood in the first place.
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It’s quite simple really; the price on the left is the available price, the one on the right is the cartel price.
BD
There are millions of people who post anonymously on the internet; the vast majority of those who post under their own name have something to sell – in your case, it’s yourself….. so spare us the old pony about the paragon of virtue, ffs.
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Barry don’t let them get to you, continue to serve the racecourse with excellence in odds and customer service.
MRW.
"Come racing get the value".
In the 6.20 at Kempton last night Sandy Par ran loose for miles and it was highly questionable that he should be allowed to run yet is price remained unmoved at only 8/1 with the thieves while 3 times that price for good money was available on Betfair at the off.
Why are the BHA & Racecourses allowing their customers to ripped off by this scum, if they can’t even be bothered to get the basics right why bother with "Racing for Change"? It’s laughable.Eddie, what, if any, authority do have the BHA & Racecourses have to regulate the activities/terms of on-course bookies?
Another unexplained anomally is why , if you go into a Ladbroke outlet at the track , you cannot take a price on a horse running there?
Happy I don’t think it is fair to single out Ladbrokes on that one – the rule is, or should be, the same for all on-course betting shops in they are not allowed to offer prices at the "home" course.
Why are the BHA & Racecourses allowing their customers to ripped off by this scum, if they can’t even be bothered to get the basics right why bother with "Racing for Change"? It’s laughable.
Turning it round what right do the racecourses have to tell the bookmakers what terms to offer – that would effectively be a constraint of trade. At the end of the the day "customers" have a choice – they don’t have to bet if they feel they are being ripped off. If enough punters voted with their feet the bookmakers would soon review their policies.
Turning it round what right do the racecourses have to tell the bookmakers what terms to offer – that would effectively be a constraint of trade. At the end of the the day "customers" have a choice – they don’t have to bet if they feel they are being ripped off. If enough punters voted with their feet the bookmakers would soon review their policies.
I wouldn’t know what power racecourses have, presumably they can refuse bookmakers permission to bet or install some Betfair terminals for that choice you suggest?
Are you saying enough punters are not voting with their feet? Do the "crowds" at Kempton and other all weather tracks not tell a story?
What about the millions of punters being ripped off in betting shops having to accept 4/6 not knowing it was 7/4 on Betfair or 8/1 when 24/1 on Betfair?
Has betting on horses not gone down in recent times?
It cannot be good for the sport when it is trying to attract people to the game that they are ripped off if they do turn to the sport.They’re out to rip off the people who aren’t clued up. It was even said on RUK that some of them offer an 8th of the odds for a place on one particular course. Tourist in dodgey Glasgow market place is the picture that springs to mind.
I wouldn’t know what power racecourses have, presumably they can refuse bookmakers permission to bet or install some Betfair terminals for that choice you suggest?
I would suggest as long as the bookmakers pay the racecourses the going rate for a pitch then it is pretty much up to them how they conduct their business. I suspect Mr Dennis and his ilk would be fairly vociferous in expressing their opposition should the courses attempt to tell them how to conduct their business.
Are you saying enough punters are not voting with their feet? Do the "crowds" at Kempton and other all weather tracks not tell a story?
I would suggest punters are voting with their feet at the all weather tracks because of the standard of racing on offer more than anything else, but that has been discussed to death elsewhere on this forum and I have no desire to get into that debate.
Those like Shadow Leader will clearly know better than me but I would suspect most of the liquidity at the all-weather meetings comes from off course anyway, thus underlining the argument AW racing is primarily betting fodder and those choosing to bet on such racing do so bearing that in mind. I go back to my original point – as long as enough turnover is being generated then nothing will change.
What about the millions of punters being ripped off in betting shops having to accept 4/6 not knowing it was 7/4 on Betfair or 8/1 when 24/1 on Betfair?
I think they are called mug punters – they have a choice – as far as I am aware nobody is standing with a gun to their head compelling them to make a bet.
They clearly do not feel they are being ripped off if the did they would not place the bet in the first place. If they do feel ripped off then more fool them for placing the bet in the first place.
If they feel that strongly, they can use Betfair themselves – if thay cannot access Betair then tough – they still do not have to make the bet with the bookmaker.
Has betting on horses not gone down in recent times?
It cannot be good for the sport when it is trying to attract people to the game that they are ripped off if they do turn to the sport.It is a free market and as long as there are enough greedy punters / compulsive gamblers / mug punters (call them what you like) out there who will bet on anything, at any price, then nothing is going to change and no amout of complaining will make any difference.
It doesn’t matter if you or I think it is fair or unfair – it comes down to market forces.
well said Paul , I agree totally
at last someone here tells it as it is
cheers
Ricky
well said Paul , I agree totally
at last someone here tells it as it is
cheers
Ricky
Thought it was a load of crap myself
cheers
yeats
Paul,
I have quoted part of the post you made in the Lounge regarding bank charges in addition to a snippet from the one above on this thread, as I feel they are related. Hope that’s okay
It is called self discipline and taking responsibility for your own actions – something far too many people nowadays seem to consider as being an optional requirement in life.
However most who have unauthorised overdrafts cynically use the system and are either being irresponsible or burying their heads in the sand and not seeking help.
I think they are called mug punters – they have a choice – as far as I am aware nobody is standing with a gun to their head compelling them to make a bet.
They clearly do not feel they are being ripped off if the did they would not place the bet in the first place. If they do feel ripped off then more fool them for placing the bet in the first place.
If they feel that strongly, they can use Betfair themselves – if thay cannot access Betair then tough – they still do not have to make the bet with the bookmaker.
On the whole I agree with you. Self-discipline, responsibility for one’s own actions and making the effort to enlighten oneself with fact are – or should be – pre-requisites in life generally, and in money matters particularly
However for every one intelligent, self-disciplined, self-assured, resolute, strong-willed and unimpressionable character such as your good self there are ten dimmer, undisciplined, insecure, feckless, weak-willed and easily-led impressionable ones
These are hardly attributes to be admired, nor ones to be making too many excuses for but it is a core part of the off-course bookmaking business model and more recently that of the banks to deliberately target this ‘soft’ section of society, be it in the guise of hefty over-rounds from Kempton or credit handed out like confetti by the banks to those they know will not be able to service the interest let alone the capital.
It is this knowing laying out of the ‘have nots’ – both financially and mentally – for picking over by the greedy vultures inhabiting the eyries up there in the unreconstructed freest of free markets that is wholly and morally wrong – big fish eat the little fish – dog eat dog – devil take the hindmost – only the strong survive
Bill Gates – to his eternal credit – said "with great wealth comes great responsibilty".
‘with knowledge comes responsibility’ too, in my view
Epitomised by Glenn’s one man crusade to bring to our attention the truth of what is actually going on at Kempton
Believe it or not those attributes mentioned above – intelligence, self-discipline, self-assuredness, resolution, and strong will – are what some may term a ‘blessing’ others a ‘rare gift’
Either way, those with it should use it to assist those who lack it
Not look down their noses and say ‘If I can do it so can you’ ‘I’m all right Jack’
…or maybe I’m just morphing into a bleeding-heart liberal
‘where’s sean boyce when you need him?’
I’m still here Barry and I still haven’t been able to confirm the transmitter failure you referred to. If you know who to put me in touch with I’d appreciate it. In the course of enquiring about it though I did have a lengthy chat with an on course layer of some experience.
What he had to say re the practice of shortening such horses was interesting and, I have to say, changed my perspective somewhat.
I still think shortening non runners, ramping up overrounds before the off by shortening horses and not lengthening others etc are clumsy and cynical moves. I do however have a better understanding of why such things are much more likely to happen now.
What is needed here is a calm and informed debate, not the name calling that such threads so often disintegrate into. Bookmakers need to understand how their actions look to the general betting public and others but the general betting public also needs to understand the current betting landscape and how it’s changed.
These are not ‘black and white’ issues, and the ‘exchange good bookie bad’ line is too simplistic by far. I don’t agree with you Barry that the SP returning system is now particularly complicated or difficult to understand but the wider picture certainly is. We have systems still in place that belong to a different age now and racing (as well as governments) need to catch up fast with how things have moved on. Brien Friel puts it beautifully in his play ‘Translations’ when talking about the clash between Irish and English culture and language –‘It can happen that a civilisation can become imprisoned in a linguistic contour that no longer matches the landscape of fact’.
Yes, it’s a correct response to be angered by some of what we’re seeing in on course markets but we need to understand the whole landscape before charting a way out of the current mess.
If twenty five minutes is a trump Boycie
I’se apologise
for trumping yer tramp
with this disgraceful diversion…Mr X’s big feet crushed ‘n hurt
the on course macs
who unlike the really big boys
with beetlecrushers
were unable to form life sustaining contracts
with Micky Moose.No memebership of sprint valley
for them, only a noose
with meagre scant pickings
vultured from the valley of death…no -one to the left of them
no-one to the right
and Mr X’s huge cannon
casting a bleak shadow
over the cemetry that was
Lingfield parkI think the word fair
is appropriate here
and anyone buying a racecourse
ticket rather like at a fairground
should read the conditional words
"a fair scary ride for yer money"Lao Tzu 42
Truly, one may gain by losing;
And one may lose by gaining.
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