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Interesting that the stewards didn’t even bother mentioning or looking at this ‘incident’ Frankie was moaning about yet nothing gets said in the media about the dangerous (or careless as the stewards called it) move Ryan Moore made on The Mediterranean which he’s been banned for 4 days for, the knock on effect of which nearly put Berkshire Rocco through the rails. Didn’t hear Jason Watson calling Ryan out for that one.
Edit – sorry should have read the thread hadn’t realised Hoiles covered it. Can’t believe he only got 4 days myself.
I know you worship him GT, but he is an arsehole.
Far from it TTC, I am myself very much an introvert – the opposite of Frankie. Much prefer Ryan Moore as a person. However, just as I hope others would try to understand my feelings / actions of social anxiety; think I should try to understand the feelings / actions of an extrovert too… And it is a good job we are not all the same
Value Is EverythingNot when it comes to defending your “value is everything” stuff….. But that’s why so many people like you, Ginge.
Frankie was a bit over the top but I’m not sure he was wrong
The jockey on baron samedi has essentially blocked him
Surely that is dangerous/careless race riding
He wasn’t trying to hold his ground as frankie wasn’t trying to barge past him and take it
he wasn’t pulling out to pass the horse in front of him
He pulled out for one reason, to impede stradivarius who was trying to make ground round the outside
Should he have said what he said, probably not
Was what the young lad did wrong, yes it was imo, you cant run interference blocking horses from passing you on your outside in horse racing
Either way what moore did was much worse and frankie shouldn’t have had strad so far back, he didn’t learn from the gold cup at all
Strad ran a huge race I thought in the circumstances
A number of times this season Frankie has given Strad a bad ride – the Gold Cup itself being one that Gosden also commentated on that he had him too far out of his ground – I didn’t see anything wrong per say as I pretty much put it down to race riding i.e. you see a big rival making a move and you cover it by trying to keep him in a pocket.
Frankie mouthing off was probably more due to his annoyance at his own bad tactical ride he gave his mount with him then looking to make someone else his scapegoat much like his daft comment of Hollie at Longchamp.
His riding on his two big mounts of the day were pretty average for him as Palace Pier I felt should have won the QE2 had he not been more concerned about dicking around looking to see what his main rival was doing.
I initially thought Strad might have gone wrong near the finish as he didn’t look to be striding out quite right and he started to hang right quite noticably – but as nobody seemed to pick up on it and nothing was mentioned I guess it was just a case of him bottoming out in his run due to being given too much to do.
Personally I was rather surprised that he ran in this and the Cadran last time given the ground conditions were clearly not in his favour. Would like to see him again next season but old father time might have just been giving him a more insistent tap on the shoulder to indicate that really is your lot now son, time to call it a day.
I take your point.
However being “emotional” is not a suitable characteristic for a top jockey.
This forum and its members thinking that this chap is a superior jockey to Pat Eddery is frankly laughable.
Do you honestly think that Pat or Lester would be affected by emotion.
He needs to apologise. End of.Do you honestly think that Pat or Lester would be affected by emotion.
No, just alcohol.
We’re living in different times now Coggy.
Eddery and Piggott were both famed for their rat-a-tat-tat finish of flailing whips. Without that there is no knowing whether they’d be better with today’s rules than Frankie; or Ryan come to that.Value Is EverythingTrue, Eddery or Piggott would not have shown any emotion like Dettori did here. Instead they may well have ridden the apprentice into the rail next time – whether the youngster was at fault or not. Such was the hierarchy of the weighing room in those times.
Value Is EverythingLester would be Lester regardless of any era – yes there were times when his power packed finish with the whip (whilst affective more often than not) was extremely unedifying to watch at times and most likely if repeated in today’s age would see him spending very little time actually riding on a course.
But then on the flip side when the ride warranted the kid glove treatment you would get a ride like the one he gave Ribero in the 1968 St Leger where on desperate ground and in a more desperate finish he didn’t resort to using the whip at all.
As we are fond of saying, times were different back then but a champion rides within the rules of the day and I believe the seemingly whip happy jocks of yesteryear (not all of them were though to be clear) for the most part would be capable of adapting their style accordingly.
Back to the incident, I still think this was more a case of Dettori mouthing off in the heat of the moment because of him being p*ssed at his own bad tactical ride that had him in a bad position and then at the moment he wanted to make his move he got race ridden by another jockey who just happened to be a lot younger and that was his tipping point….had it been Ryan Moore or any other senior jockey he wouldn’t have said a word about it.
Coming so shortly after his daft comments on Hollie’s ride at Longchamp it make him look a little stupid and like the proverbial kid throwing his toys out of the pram – he should know and be better than that.
“Had it been Ryan Moore or any other senior jockey he wouldn’t have said a word about it.”
I believe that is true. By picking on a girl and a young lad, Dettori has made himself look like a bully who picks on soft targets.
Although fair play to McMonagle for standing his ground. And I doubt Hollie was too bothered by his ludicrous comments.
“picking on a girl”, CAS? tbh That sounds like you being patronising to a woman jockey more than making Dettori sound like a bully. This is supposed to be a sport where men and women are equals. If any jockey believes another jockey has ridden a poor race they should say so – man or woman.
Value Is Everything“If any jockey believes another jockey has ridden a poor race they should say so – man or woman.”
But that is the point. Would Dettori have said the same thing about Heffernan or Lordan if they had been on the Ballydoyle second string? I doubt it. Partly because O’Brien would not be pleased to see one of his own jockeys slagged off. In this case, Hollie Doyle was an easy target.
I think it’s more dettori deflecting from a very poor Champions day. Bad form IMHO and I wish he would show some class by being honest and saying he was ott. He could be looking at a very barren season next season with no Palace pier and possibly stradavarious and very few 2yo with classic pretensions. Probably be ballydoyle cast off for him. Not his best day.
“– I didn’t see anything wrong per say as I pretty much put it down to race riding i.e. you see a big rival making a move and you cover it by trying to keep him in a pocket.”
He wasn’t in a pocket he was behind him, frankie angled out to move round him and the young lad has pulled out to block him
I see why frankie was annoyed but he shouldn’t have had strad that far back anyway
But that is the point. Would Dettori have said the same thing about Heffernan or Lordan if they had been on the Ballydoyle second string? I doubt it. Partly because O’Brien would not be pleased to see one of his own jockeys slagged off. In this case, Hollie Doyle was an easy target.
You may be right about Frankie not saying anything if it were one of AOB retained jockeys – not wanting to anger AOB for potential future Dettori second string rides. However, that’s the same with any jockey, every jockey protects their own rides. But anyone not an AOB retained jockey would’ve got criticised – female or male.
Value Is EverythingA nice bit of publicity for Dettori. Not sure when the interview took place but he was not asked about his antics on Champions Day:
I’m skeptical that it’s as simple as Frankie only avoiding criticising AOB retained jockeys. I’m dubious that he would have been so critical if the other jockey had been, say, Ryan Moore in the two recent incidents. My suspicion is that he felt more comfortable expressing his feelings publically as he perceived the people at fault to be easier targets, especially McMonagle.
It’s just speculation of course and none of us can be certain. I appreciate it also means I am assuming some bad faith on his part, so hope I’m wrong.
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