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Freudian slip with the 1-2 Nathan, that was wishful thinking after having Kingman at 9/1.
After the race Matt Chapman declared that Prince Gibraltar "Must be one of the favourites for The Arc now"
He’s still 20/1 in places. Don’t give up the day job Chappers!
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The level in France over 1m2f can’t be poorer (for three-year-old horses)…
It’s a well deserved victory forGatsby
, and even if
Prince Gibraltar
(wouldn’t mind to see him over 1m4f…) seems to be the best of all the beaten horses, that was a very poor french Derby in my opinion.
The German horse was largely beaten in his last race (at Listed level, sorry). Here he managed to take fourth. How could that be possible?
BothKarakontie
and
Prestige Vendome
(the winner and runner-up of the french Guineas) were very disappointing (they got very poor starting positions however…).
I’m getting more and more worried for the future of the French Derby. This race has lost its past prestige. I won’t be surprised if it is downgraded at GII level in years to come.I really think the 2000 Guineas was a very good race…
I agree with the above. Looking at the race beforehand I thought Prince Gibraltar was a good bet in an uninspiring renewal. Karakontie had hardly set the pulse racing in the French 2000G and was easy to back today stepping up in trip. The notion of him running at Epsom looks like a flight of fancy in several respects after today.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Harking back to one of my earlier posts, I’d give him a crack at 5f. He’s built like a classic sprinter.
I think you might be wrong after today Joe
I hold my hands up and admit I was totally wrong about The Grey Gatsby, he looked exposed to me and after today you have to wonder how good the 2000 Guineas was if he could only finish 10th with his Craven conqueror Toormore only able to take 7th. First and 4th at Newmarket finished 1-2 in the Irish Guineas so it’s encouraging for Australia fans.
I claim full credit for his success…since I stopped following him, he’s gone from strength to strength
Fantastic win for Kevin Ryan. Hard working and fully deserves, as far as I can see, all his success.
A stunnigly beautiful horse as well and one deserving of the limelight. Although I must admit that it was only recently I realised he was called the ‘Grey’ Gatsby and not ‘Great’
.
A nice surprise to see he had won. Only just found out and what I thought was a losing day yesterday has turned into a winning one
Hope they keep him in training.A stunnigly beautiful horse as well and one deserving of the limelight. Although I must admit that it was only recently I realised he was called the ‘Grey’ Gatsby and not ‘Great’
.
Just glad he is as my Colours system would be doing even worse than it is
Really pleased for Kevin Ryan.does this mean a rod has a squeak on sat. Well soon find out and looking forward to see how the horse gets on in group ones over 10 to 12 f. Great start for master craftsman a much underrated horse Imho.
Though he may not be seen at Royal Ascot, I’ll take a French Classic winner spotted in a York Maiden.
By a miler, out of a sprinter who’s by another miler Zip. TGG will (imo) do better at a mile, might and only might (allowing for temperament) get 10f next year. But I’ll give up racing if he proves a "Leger" horse Zip.
How very unlike you: risking a huge sum (giving up your association with horse racing) on a slightly dodgy proposition.
The Grey Gatsby by Mastercraftsman out of Marie Vison By Entrepreneur.
Leger
horse". So (a) Has to stay (b) Needs to be good enough.
Mastercraftsman has his first two year olds this year, so it is too early to judge how much speed or stamina he will impart to his offspring. But he is a Danzig line stallion. The good ones in that line have been spinter/milers on the race track but have a surprisng ability to throw foals with much greater stamina than they had. Mastercraftsman’s grandsire, Danehill, produced Westerner, Dylan Thomas, Duke of Marmalade, North Light, Desert King, Tiger Hill, Peeping Fawn.
Yes, any sire can throw horses who stay further than he did, and some stallions have a tendency to sire horses that take after the sire for quality and dam for stamina/speed. Almost all those who stay considerably further than the sire have middle distance/staying dams (so not The Grey Gatsby). One you name, Derby winner North Light was by Danehill out of Sought Out, winner of the Prix Du Cadran over two and a half miles. Sorry MV, but do you really think it is Danehill that gave stamina to North Light?His sire, Danehill Dancer produced Planteur, Moatize, Dancing Rain, Ice Queen, Wajir. All these were Group 1 winners over 12 furlongs or more. That’s without counting the loads of other horses who won at secondary Group and Listed level and handicaps.
Although Mastercraftsman ran most of his races over a mile, he did finish a one length second to Sea The Stars in the 10 furlong Juddmonte International and finished a five length third to the same horse in the 10 furlong Irish Champion Stakes.
With Danehill and Danehill Dancer both showing their best form at 6 furlongs I would not be at all surprised to see Mastercraftsman siring horses capable of Group level form over 12 furlongs or more.not
sire horses capable of Group level form over 12f or more MV. But I’d be surprised if he sires a three year old capable of winnning a Group 1 over 1m6f132yrds – unless the dam/dams family is an influence for stamina. But as far as The Grey Gatsby is concerned – dam Marie Vison/her family are more speedy.
Marie Vison ran once at 6f and twice at 8f as as a two year old for Jim Bolger. She was sent to David Smaga in France as a three year old when her best run was second in a Listed race over 8 furlongs on heavy ground at Saint Cloud. Her other races varied in distance from 7 to 10 furlongs.
I am not sure if it is fair to label Entrepreneur as just a miler. He won the 2000 Guineas but then injured himself when finishing fourth in the Derby. He had one other woeful race three months later that just demonstrated that his injury was too much for him to be an effective race horse. His full sister Dance A Dream was a top class stayer, finishing second to Moonshell in The Oaks, after having won the Cheshire Oaks. His full brother Sadler’s Image won three races over 12 furlongs, two of them at Listed level.
Marie Vison’s dam was by Kingmambo who is an influence for stamina despite never having been tried at further than a mile. Of his best offspring, more have been Group 1 winners over 12 furlongs than at shorter distances. El Condor Pasa, Alkaased, Lemon Drop Kid, Rule Of Law, Encke, Light Shift and others, all won Group 1 races at 12 furlongs or more.
However, Rule Of Law was particularly lazy. Improving in a visor to make all in two races including the Acomb at two. Visor replaced with just a tongue strap and stepped up to 10f, second in Dante. Did not return to winning ways until back to front running tactics. Set pedestrian fractions in both Voltigeur and St Leger, can’t really say Rule Of Law "truly" stayed 1m6f132yrds.There may just be enough stamina clues to get you worried.
On the other hand, there is a fair chance that TGG’s lack of ability might save the day.
But the quality angle will probably get TGG too.Another little aside on race-track performance versus stallion- imparted stamina; The St Leger winner Sixties Icon’s ten best offspring so far have accumulated 19 wins, with 15 of them being at 7 furlongs or less. And he is really bred to be a stayer being by a Derby winner out of an Oaks winner (Galileo/Love Divine).
It’s a risky business judging bloodstock stamina too early. I really hope we don’t have to wave goodbye to you next September. You could try having a saver on the proposition of “I’ll stay with racing if Toormore wins a Group 1 as a three year old”!You have been very quiet GT… I liked your quote that there was ‘a fair chance that TGG’S lack of ability might save the day’…
Please note MV, I said "I’ll give up racing if he (The Grey Gatsby) proves a Leger horse". So (a) Has to stay (b) Needs to be good enough.
Could be worse Ginge, I see Amazing Maria is quoted at 66/1 for the Leger.
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
I see Charm Spirit also won at Chantilly to maintain the 100% record of that slow run average guineas on quick ground.
Well the dashing Grey does it again and puts the wonder horse Australia flat on his Erse.
A terrific result for Kevin Ryan and surely, at last, it is time to revisit the statement that Hot Streak is the best horse he has trained.
Well done to everyone who kept faith with this horse who has been the epitome of the underdog that hasn’t read the script.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The jockey won the race.
Had Moore been on Australia and O’Brien on the Grey Gatsby I have no doubt the result would have been different.
Moore is different class to O’BrienThe jockey won the race.
Had Moore been on Australia and O’Brien on the Grey Gatsby I have no doubt the result would have been different.
Moore is different class to O’Brienlets give the horse some credit:-)
Its easy to say the favourite was in front too soon but the winner didnt exactly mug him. Best horse on the day won. Just goes to show that the more often you turn up for a dance, the greater the chance someone will step on your toes.SHL
The jockey won the race.
Had Moore been on Australia and O’Brien on the Grey Gatsby I have no doubt the result would have been different.
Moore is different class to O’BrienShame Moore wasn’t on board at York. Shocking ride from Hughes.
Looks like a few apologies are due to the Australia doubters. The Grey Gatsby obviously got the better ride today, but you could certainly argue that Richard Hughes gave him a very poor ride in the Juddmonte International. Australia was paddling by the finish there and could have been done by a more proactive ride.
What a weekend for Mastercraftsman already though. With horses effective over 1 mile, 1m 2f, 1m 4f and 1m 6f and quite precocious, he’s shaping up like a versatile stallion for the future. You’ve got to wonder if Mastercraftsman himself might have threatened Sea The Stars at 12 furlongs.
He’ll surely get a better class of mares at his stable door now, so maybe Coolmore have found their next big thing.
Hope they keep him in training.
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