SUBLIMITY

[Tuffers]

I never said it was a strong renewal. Why should i justify something i havent stated? I have no real opinion either way (other than they didnt finished bunched up)

All a bit different from saying it was the worst renewal since 1990….

Let’s see whether the form is franked – I’ve arrived at my view based on the level of ability the first three had shown going into the race. Osana was the highest rated of those three by Timeform going into the race and he was only rated 158.

[clivex]

Kribensis was an excellent hurlder…..so pretty well proves that Tuffers is just plucking a number out of the air

Timeform ratings going into the race? So what? These were young horses with every chance of improving. Means nothing to me

[Tuffers]

Kribensis was an excellent hurlder…..so pretty well proves that Tuffers is just plucking a number out of the air

Timeform ratings going into the race? So what? These were young horses with every chance of improving. Means nothing to me

I didn’t think for a moment it would which is why I didn’t initially provide an explanation that I thought would be wasted on you

[Bulwark]

I have to say I do agree with tuffers here, the pace of the race was slow, last years was fast on worse ground, sublimity won at a faster paced race on worse ground, therefore he clearly stays. This year sublimity had no sort of prep, he only seen a racecourse once since last year and that was like 4 months ago. He was a big negative pre race on that basis. He turned up and made several blunders and still finished 4th in a race that was run on completely opposite terms to last years. That marks him out to me to be a decent horse.

I dont know who would have won had things been different and indeed things may have been very similar but overall I would expect the form of the champion hurdle to be proved largely duff in time. Katchit is without a doubt a good versatile horse, so too I would say is sublimity, and their form should give or take a bit hold up, but there were so many non speedy horses so far back in a slowly run event that they could never get into it, so didnt make their running on the day. How it would have changed the complection of the race is anyones guess, but I genuinely believe that Scudamore and Osana led the field (bar thornton on Katchit as he knew he was sat on a fast little horse) a merry dance, and most of that field was beaten long before they even had a clue.

I never said anything about either horse really before the race as indeed i like both horses, but that is what I think of the race as a singular event.

[Tuffers]

I never said anything about either horse really before the race as indeed i like both horses, but that is what I think of the race as a singular event.

Likewise – I don’t have anything against the winner as a horse. I’d give my right arm to have him in my syndicate.

[Gingertipster]

Does anyone have the fractions to say it was slowly run. Only to the naked eye it looked fast unless they slowed it up dramatically somewhere.
The over all time could be slow because they went to fast early, if you see what I mean.

Ginge

Value Is Everything

[Bulwark]

I think visibly the race is only reasonably paced for the first few fences until about the second fence as they approach the first corner,after which osanas lead is well established and he looks to be going really easy, not even looking to be trying.

[clivex]

clivex wrote:
Kribensis was an excellent hurlder…..so pretty well proves that Tuffers is just plucking a number out of the air

Timeform ratings going into the race? So what? These were young horses with every chance of improving. Means nothing to me

I didn’t think for a moment it would which is why I didn’t initially provide an explanation that I thought would be wasted on you

No

What you are saying is that you dont have any sort of explanation at all for your dim assertion that this was the worst Chapion Hurdle since the presumably rubbish Kribensis

I have to say I do agree with tuffers here, the pace of the race was slow

All that proves is that it was (supposedly) a slow pace. It does not suggest any of the principles are not decent horses (werent they a bit strung out anyway? Wouldnt a totally slow race have had them more bunched up?)

Kauto’s GC was definately slow. Presumably he was the "worst" GC winner we have seen since Nortons Coin (or whatever) then?

[Bulwark]

I definitely don’t think that it was a poor field clivex (didnt read all of thread, just picked it up part way round), i just think that the running of the race wrote most of the other major players out of the race.

Kauto Star’s 2007 gold cup was actually a comparison I thought of for this race, the slow pace set the race up for him last year, but he was a class act and probably wouldnt have been beaten anyway it was run. That is pretty much the same as the champ hurdle this year, slowly run, most with potential chances written out of it and a decent winner is produced from what looks on the day in running to be an uncompetitive race, but wasnt IMHO.

[clivex]

I think thats about right…

[Fist of Fury 2k8]

Tuffers it’s not your day and I’m begining to wonder if racing is your sport Sublimity was a fair horse on the flat with Michael Stoute he won a class A 30k 1 mile Handicap at Doncaster. Speed is his beat weapon staying is not…………everything about him has non stayer written all over him.

Lucky I’ve got you to put me straight, eh Fist. I think I’ll take the views of people in the pre-parade ring rather than a guy on another continent as to Sublimity’s condition.

Sublimity ran no sort of race. His hurdling was awful (when he is normally a fluent hurdler) and he pulled hard early on (because of freshness and the slow pace).

The fact that despite all these things he finished fourth shows you how poor a renewal it was this year.

Absolutely no offence to Katchit’s connections who should be rightly proud of their little horse but IMHO he would have been beaten in every one of the previous 18 Champion Hurdles.

Your a hoot Tuffers your absolutely full of it mate……Paddock judges……in your head maybe.

[Katchit]

Far be it from me to encourage anyone away from crabbing this race but I thought I’d share with you the conversation with Choc after the race

He felt that two things had changed dramatically between the first and third races – the rain that had come in before racing began had got into the ground to make it testing and in his opinion genuine soft ground… also the wind had picked up to the extent that it had become a factor

It can’t have been a slow race because K was ‘flat to the boards’ for the entire second circuit (and he isn’t a slow horse)

I guess all that is left is for him to come back and run well again next year… remember that Katchit’s time in the Triumph only two seconds off the record for the race on worse ground compared to Detroit City’s

I could go on but I don’t care that much – WE WON!!!

[Fist of Fury 2k8]

I have to say I do agree with tuffers here, the pace of the race was slow, last years was fast on worse ground, sublimity won at a faster paced race on worse ground, therefore he clearly stays. This year sublimity had no sort of prep, he only seen a racecourse once since last year and that was like 4 months ago. He was a big negative pre race on that basis. He turned up and made several blunders and still finished 4th in a race that was run on completely opposite terms to last years. That marks him out to me to be a decent horse.

I dont know who would have won had things been different and indeed things may have been very similar but overall I would expect the form of the champion hurdle to be proved largely duff in time. Katchit is without a doubt a good versatile horse, so too I would say is sublimity, and their form should give or take a bit hold up, but there were so many non speedy horses so far back in a slowly run event that they could never get into it, so didnt make their running on the day. How it would have changed the complection of the race is anyones guess, but I genuinely believe that Scudamore and Osana led the field (bar thornton on Katchit as he knew he was sat on a fast little horse) a merry dance, and most of that field was beaten long before they even had a clue.

I never said anything about either horse really before the race as indeed i like both horses, but that is what I think of the race as a singular event.

Ypu are reading last years race way wrong it was a crawl in comparison to this years from 4 out. Nothing else was going except Iftikar and Sublimity.

He’s made a couple of mistakes but hasn’t lost ground he has every chance at rthe last hit s the rising ground and goes no where. 3 times in 3 years he’s doen the same thing and you and Tuffers think he gets the trip.

For months I said he wouldn’t and he didn’t but I am always prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt so decided to look further back.

What do I find……a quote "There were only 10 last year which suited Sublimity as he’s a fast horse that Johnny Murtagh felt could have won a Group race had he stayed on the flat."

If that doesn’t put doubt in your mind then I don’t know what will.

I have no doubt the trip is just beyond him and he’ll never be as lucky again.

[aaronizneez]

Fist said

"He’s made a couple of mistakes but hasn’t lost ground "

I would argue that he has landed a touch flat footed at three or four hurdles and only jumped the first and last hurdle with any fluency certainly costing him so ground.

For what its worth I think the ground (sticky? , maybe responsible for poor jumping)and wind were also part of Sublimity’s undoing this year allied with a slow race. He took about 4-5 seconds longer to get to the line from the last this year compared to last year on officially better ground. If he had run the same time as last year he would have won. I think Sublimity goes better off a faster pace as I believe he has the ability to travel through the race and use his short burst to take him clear before staying on at the one pace, as he did last year. My opinion only of course.

[Fist of Fury 2k8]

Every horse that day would be 4 or 5 seconds slower coming up the hill that day and more the ground was sticky for them all and the wind was recorded at 27mph at the time of the champion………they were running straight into it.

This is not something I made up over night I said this months ago and even said Katchit would be the horse to ruin his day…..the last thing Sublimity needed was ahorse like Katchit holding back until the third last then playing catch me if you can..where you egt the idea from he would be suited by a strong pace beats me………he wins his races with a burst of speed the slower they are going the more chance he has of having enough speeed left to beat them for toe……….the faster you go the more it goes against speed horses not for them

He’s got every chance and he did what he did behind Noland stopped dead when he hits the rising ground and he did it but got a way with it last year becuase the two behind him were flat out since the fourth last………go back and look at the two races I mention and then come back and tell me i’m wrong…………I said for months he’s a non stayer he ran like he’s a non stayer, Johnny Murtaugh said he was a non stayer on the flat which I never knew until today………….how big a picture do you need?

He wasn’t fit! he didn’t jump well! for Pete’s sake he come there on the bridle and is in second at the last………everything is perfect for him but he loses 7 lengths on Katchit on the run to the line…he’ had not a thing to offer exactly as I said the first post I did on here on him……on form he’s ran better than last year doubling the distance between him and Afsoun…..

[aaronizneez]

I’m aware the ground is the same for all, some just act better on it. Can you believe Denman is better on soft ground than good, but hey all he beat was a sub standard winner from the previous year who beat the previous years second by a greater margin of over 20 lengths this year. Having said that the second was never going couldn’t jump out of the ground and doesn’t really get the trip against top class gallopers………………….

[Fist of Fury 2k8]

You are either nuts or your winding me up

Kauto Star sub standard? I have heard it all now. The horse was out on his feet before 3 out and ran on like a tiger despite not being himself. Nothing to do with the trip or the gallop it was all to do with him running a stinker. ED was held up in his preparation and never ran anything like to form.

Denmans a lovely big horse but Kauto is one of the classiest chasers in the history of the game. Anyone who writes him off because of one race or thinks that was kauto Star at his best has a peanut for a brain……..geez there are some bad judges on here with very short memories……..Worlds best chaser one day the next he’s sub standard

as PN said "I have never heard so much junk spoken about a horse in all my life".

[Author]

Posts