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Could well be that he enjoys the training aspect of things – remember horse are herd animals so prefer to be with many other horses but also seem to thrive on having a fixed routine and in a lot of cases being turned out into a paddock for hours on end with maybe a couple of horses for company might seem idyllic from our perspective for a horse but is totally alien to a racehorse from what they have known since a 2 or 3 yr old.
As to the perception, I think too much credit is given to joe public generally being even remotely interested in the comings and goings of the sport let alone an individual racehorse’s life unless it involves some sort of animal cruelty or whip angle. Changes are often made off the back of a fear of a public perception standpoint and lets face it the general public wouldn’t care one way or the other if horse racing was banned in its entirety.
Horses will generally show you if they have had enough of their racing life and are ready for something else but for us to assume that it is unfair to continue asking him to race on as a 8 yr old or that it is owners greed driving the decision is wrong. We have no issue with sprinters going on racing at 10 or 11 or even older and so long as he (and any other racehorse for that matter) is happy why not continue and who knows if he get fast ground at Ascot/Goodwood he will still take a lot of beating – he has won 3 of his last four races on good to firm and the one he lost (Gold Cup) was more down to a shockingly poor tactical ride from Frankie.
If they have no intention of standing him at stud and if his temprement allows, maybe upon retirement he could go down the retraining racehorses route as they must be plenty of viable option other than him being left in a field all day for the rest of his retirement.
Loads to lose , nothing to gain by going on , I really don’t want to see strad getting beat by Trueshan next year as well , peak strad would blow Trueshan into the weeds
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
What do they really have to lose now? We know he is clearly not the same horse in soft ground so those defeats on it do little (if anything) to diminish what he has accomplished to date.
I do believe had he won the Gold Cup this year they would have retired him at the end of this season and it really wouldn’t surprise me if they retire him on the spot if he were to win the Gold Cup next season…I think they see it as some sort of unfinished business.
His first run of the season (assuming he comes through the winter in good shape) will most likely tell them whether to continue on, ideally they would want the ground to be good or quicker for where ever his seasonal debut is so the ground cannot be used as an excuse if he does get beat.
Personally I don’t think even a peak on song Strad in deep conditions would have been able to cope with a true soft ground specialist like Trueshan.
Good posts Ld
Very salient points made
You could be right But for me its a shame so the prosecution rests
I will lay him each time he runs
Thanks ricky – appreciate you feel differently on the subject and its all good, afterall how boring would it be if we all agreed on things. For one it would make a forum like this totally redundant and how sad would that be for us small racing band of merry men and women.
I would lay him as well for what it is worth but I think most would not begrudge him from having earned at least the right to attempt another day in the sun….even if that sun is on the brink of setting.
The most depressing thing for me is that a durable, consistent and sound horse like Stradivarius apparently isn’t seen as an asset to NH stallion ranks, whereas lightly raced crocks like Pour Moi & his similarly fragile son Wings of Eagles have successful careers. No wonder the Memorials section of this forum is one of the most active.
Amazed at the negativity on this thread.
If Stradivarius were mine – on the basis of what I know about the horse as an outsider – I would probably have retired him – with all his form taking a dip this season. However, connections of any horse should be in the best position to know whether there is any likelihood of a return to form. It is an un-Gosden-like decision to keep a 7 year old in training. Got to look for possible reasons for their decision.My idea of connections believing him not as suitable for a NH stallion than some of his contemporaries being one possible contributing factor. Possibly not the main one though.
Another being their insistence (despite the “official” going reports) that Strad’ is not at his best on soft… Might seem strange but my analysis of race times do indicate going for his soft ground Gold Cups weren’t as soft as the official makes out…
Possible rivals is another possible reason to keep him in training. Yes, Trueshan is a bloody good stayer, but he needs at least give in the ground. Whether Strad goes on soft or not, what we do know is he acts well on a firm surface. The two may never meet again. Subjectivist the other serious rival who does act on both good-firm and a soft surface… But he’s had a leg injury. Many come back after leg injuries but some don’t and some come back unable to reproduce their very best. Chaudenay winner Monobo is the up and comer but still needs to improve a chunk more to get to these three’s standard. Who else? Must be a big doubt St Leger winner Hurricane Lane staying 2 1/2 miles even if allowed to try. That leaves Spanish Mission who Stradivarius has already beaten this year without needing to be at his best… So on “form” can see connections thinking it possible.
Then there’s the jockey’s rides. tbh I think both Frankie’s criticism of others and criticism of his rides by punters have been overblown. If looking at how Strad has won his Group 1’s the position he’s come from is very similar to this season… With the possible exception of the Cadran which is excusable. Closer to the pace a legitimate tactic on the basis of very soft conditions meaning Strad’s turn of foot would be less or in-effective. Anyway, for whatever reason Dettori believes Stradivarius still capable of Group 1 glory which is no doubt a major factor in connections keeping Stradivarius in training. Frankie’s retirement must also be not too far away and Stradivarius is one of his best horses. May be he was particularly persuasive?
Can’t see “greed”. How? Why? Greedy to keep him in training on the flat yet wishing he’s transferred to race over jumps. How does that work?
Even if am right about connections believing Strad’ not as attractive a NH stallion as some contemporaries… Probably needs to win the Gold Cup (for which he’s an 8/1 chance) or Goodwood Cup if he’s to earn more than at stud. Greed? Nah, if anything the opposite.But whatever the reason for keeping Stradivarius in training… am looking forward to seeing one of my favourite horses running again in 2022.
Value Is EverythingAgree the weird world.of flat racing which must be the only sport where “fans” want to see less of the stars
Tonge,
I said about Stradivarius’s supposed inability to handle very soft being not ideal for a jumps sire compared to a retiring stallion who does act on very soft. Stad’s durability and consistency are obviously good assets. Other sires lack of durability and consistency are obviously minus points for them.Value Is EverythingI am sure that’s true GT. He’s also relatively small (though plenty of smaller top class jumpers, as well as loads of lousy big ones). Doesn’t alter the fact that I’m depressed that so many UK & Irish breeders don’t seem to be interested in breeding for soundness and longevity. I can see Strad ending up in Germany where he is more likely to be valued.
Just read a piece by Stradivarius owner Bjorn Nielsen in theownerbreeder.com by Julian Muscat called Bjorn Again.
Appears he feels horses are born to race and is extremely frustrated with the flat breeding industry who aren’t interested in stayers. Sold his first good horse Assessor seemingly partly because of this. Doesn’t seem interested in Jumps breeding, so you could be right Tonge. Germany here he comes? Bjorn has a great love of Royal Ascot which may also contribute to him wanting another crack at the Gold Cup. Even in this article (Early June 2019) he was talking about racing Stradivarius until the end of this year because of the lack of interest from flat breeders. So not that surprising another season is on the cards.
Value Is EverythingI don’t see any negatives with Stradivarius continuing to race. How would any racing fans benefit from him retiring? The more good horses that continue to race, the better.
Plenty already get sold abroad due to the pitiful prize money here and we need all the good horses we can get.
It does not matter one iota that the horse is past his peak, he showed a good level of form throughout the season and can only make the long distance races more competitive than they otherwise would have been.
As for laying him every time he runs, wouldn’t that be dependent on his price? And if the poster is correct on his chances be reflected in his price?“Agree the weird world of flat racing which must be the only sport where “fans” want to see less of the stars.”
Depends on the horse. Stradivarius has been racing for a number of years and has reached a senior age for a group 1 horse. Arguably my favourite flat horse Sea The Stars, on the other hand, I wouldn’t have minded another season.
Racing Stradivarius at 8 is no different to racing any other apparently sound horse at the same age.
So what if he loses a few more races, or even fails to win any at all? he’ll make the races he competes in more interesting, he’ll certainly be of more interest to us than standing in a field or covering low grade mares.
I’m sure if he is uncompetitive they’ll make a decision during the season. For me he was still competitive at the top level last year, maybe not as brilliant as he once was but still competitive and a joy to watch him compete and see the dramas of his various runs unfold.
David (Cormack15)
Even if am right about connections believing Strad’ not as attractive a NH stallion as some contemporaries… Probably needs to win the Gold Cup (for which he’s an 8/1 chance) or Goodwood Cup if he’s to earn more than at stud. Greed? Nah, if anything the opposite.
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