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I think this lovely horse is gone at the top level
One year older next yr. going to be harder to ward off younger horses
If i am proved wrong then great.
He seems more ground dependant as he gets older and while he has won on soft he never really had an opponent at that time that excels on it to the extent that Trueshan does now.
Depending on what next summer’s weather does I would say there is a strong chance they don’t face each other again as I doubt they would run Strad on soft in either the Ascot Gold Cup or at Goodwood and I don’t see Trueshan showing up to either race on proper fast summer ground – the best we could hope for is Ascot/Goodwood to have something in the region of the easy side of good and then we might get the re-match.
“One of the reasons why Stradivarius has been kept racing so long may be because connections believe he is not as suited to being a jumping sire than many of his staying contemporaries.”
I can’t have that for a second. Nonsense IMO.
What you missed out TTC is the reason. Progeny often take after their sire for ground preference… And Jumps soft is softer than flat soft which Stradivarius does not act on…
Answer me this if you will: If you are a Jumps breeder would you send your mare to a horse knowing there is a probability it won’t act on National Hunt soft or heavy… and some won’t even act on jumps good-soft?
imo Ok Some breeders will but some won’t (ie reducing the number of mares available). Which is why connections probably believe Stradivarius is not as good a jumping sire as some of his contemporaries that do act on softer.
Value Is Everything“flat soft which Stradivarius does not act on…”
I don’t need to go any further than this GT – that is just plain wrong.
BUY THE SUN
Once again TTC…
If you’re quoting me then please at the very least quote the whole sentence.
What I said was: “Jumps soft is softer than< flat soft which Stradivarius does not act on”.
ie To put it another way: Stradivarius does not act on softer than flat soft (do look up what he’s done on flat “very soft” and “heavy” if you don’t believe me) and therefore does not act on jumps “soft”.
Value Is Everything“And Jumps soft is softer than flat soft which Stradivarius does not act on…”
He has been well past his best this season, yet still finished second in a Group 1 on ‘Very Soft’, given a debatable ride. Won multiple Group races on Soft ground, including two Group 1’s. Hardly ‘Not Acting’ on soft ground.
I bet there are countless stallions with less form on Soft ground then Stradivarius who are succesful NH sires. Think you’ve lost the plot here.
Edit – Isn’t Yeats almost leading NH Sire? Well known for liking top of the ground? No G1’s on Soft ground?
BUY THE SUN
“I think this lovely horse is gone at the top level
One year older next yr. going to be harder to ward off younger horses.”
……and I think Subjectivist should be back and Tashkhan looks an interesting addition as well.
I bet there are countless stallions with less form on Soft ground then Stradivarius who are succesful NH sires. Think you’ve lost the plot here.
Isn’t Yeats almost leading NH Sire? Well known for liking top of the ground? No G1’s on Soft ground?
Yes TTC, there will be some sires without very soft ground form whose progeny will act on it. Just the likelihood of a sire being a sire whose progeny don’t generally act on very soft is increased if that sire does not act on it…
And the likelihood is also increased if the sire comes from a long line of horses who did not enjoy very soft conditions and pass that on to a great number of their progeny. Stradivarius sire line of Sea The Stars – Cape Cross – Green Desert. You rarely get a longer line than that. ie When studying form if I saw a horse unraced on very soft from any of those sires I’d think that horse probably won’t act on it.
Yeats sire was Sadlers Wells and plenty of his progeny acted on very soft. ie If I’d seen a horse unraced on very soft by Sadlers Wells I’d think that horse had a reasonable chance of acting on it.
Value Is EverythingHe has been well past his best this season, yet still finished second in a Group 1 on ‘Very Soft’, given a debatable ride. Won multiple Group races on Soft ground, including two Group 1’s. Hardly ‘Not Acting’ on soft ground.
As I said in my post on the previous page, TTC: Stradivarius’s two Group 1 Gold Cup victories on officially “soft” came when the mile handicap just after it were run in just 2.32 seconds and 2.5 seconds slower than Racing Post Standard. That’s just 0.29 and 0.3125 seconds per furlong slower than standard. So times strongly suggest both those soft ground group 1s weren’t run on truly “soft” ground. The official going report is only one person’s opinion and is often wrong. If you believe they are soft ground times then what would you expect on Good-soft or good conditions?
Times on the days where Stradivarius disappointed on “very Soft” and “Heavy” were a lot slower.
Yes, Stradivarius was second in a Group 1 on “Very Soft”, but it was still a long way below form… And if you still believe he is effective on it then please look at the race again. As the Racing Post comment says, he “joined leader travelling strongly 4 out”, just couldn’t quicken or stay on. Either didn’t act on it or outstayed. Either way there is certainly no evidence of him acting on very soft / heavy. Below form in the 2020 Arc on heavy.
His win on “soft” ground in the 2018 Long Distance Cup was a 1 1/2 length defeat of the vastly inferior Thomas Hobson. ie Not running to anything like his best.
Value Is EverythingNo way am I fighting ‘The Ginger Adonis’. As Harry Callaghan once said – “A mans got to know his limitations”.
BUY THE SUN
They should’ve retired him now. No 7 year old had won the Ascot Gold Cup in the last 10 years so was never going to be easy this year. At aged 8 next year even harder.
To be fair the horse should be retired now
Do they need the money?? No
Do they need more trophys. Cant see that myself
So why ask the horse to race as an 8 yrold
Im baffled 🤷🏻♂️
Its something to do with him not being viable as a jumps sire Ricky. Due to him not acting on soft. Despite all the Group races won on soft. Or something.
Ghingis Khan explained this to me earlier in the thread.
BUY THE SUN
Fair enough
But nobody thinks about the message this sends out to the non racing public
It appears as naked greed
Of course we know it is not the case
But the perception is rank bad and sad🤷🏻♂️
Seems a bit pointless keeping him in training for another year at his age. He’s been well and truly dethroned this year and it’s highly unlikely to change next year.
Being a jumps fan i see no reason why he couldn’t try the seemingly forgotten about route of going hurdling if the owner isn’t interested in sending him to stud. Whether he acts on soft ground or not shouldn’t really matter in a couple of moderate novice hurdles with his class. If he can jump, you’d wager there’s a fair chance of ‘good’ being in the going description on Champion Hurdle day. The ground will be fresh and the field, with the exception of Honeysuckle, are likely to be average at best.
It won’t happen though. A boring, uncompetitive flat schedule will be pencilled in whilst avoiding Trueshan at every opportunity
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