- This topic has 139 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote: from Grasshopper on 8:22 pm on Oct. 8, 2006[br]<br>When I were a lad, we were so poor that I used to have to work 36 hours a day down the local pit, and we’d come home, and our Dad would murder us every night – in cold blood – etc etc etc………
<br>LMAO.
That looks like the We Know Where You Live version of the sketch, Grass, so I ought to reply with…..
"And if you tell that to young people today… they’d be highly sceptical".
gc<br>
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Four times I believe, DJ (though there were also adverts in the Press Gazette).
An advert ran on the website for longer than that, however.
The point is that the time for thrusting young journalists to bang in an application was BEFORE the paper and website was launched, not at a time when a start-up was going through its (inevitable) growing pains.
If they wait for it to be put on a plate for them it is likely to be too late. It’s called "using one’s initiative". The kind of thing a journalist will be required to do if they actually get a job.
Advertising in the Racing Post was, oddly enough, not an option. ;)
(Edited by Prufrock at 8:55 pm on Oct. 8, 2006)
Yes, amazing really that the fist time the paper got a mention from the boys at Canary Wharf was the day after it folded.
I stand corrected on the adverts.
It was suggested that I join this forum because there were friendly people on it who would help out and give advice. <br>It seems such a shame that certain members feel the need to attack and upset people about whom they know nothing at all and make hurtful and unfounded comments.
But in attempt to answer some of your questions:
Both Meshaheer and myself are working hard to find jobs, harder than you could possibly imagine, but there are certain avenues that are just not open, such as working for nothing.<br>I think, Steve, I should know more about my financial status than you and I cannot take out another loan, period.<br>As for making contacts, Mesh and I have both completed the BHB scheme this summer and so have contacts coming out of our ears. I, personally, have exploited every one of those and am still high and dry. Every single one has said to me that the racing industry is a closed book when it comes to jobs at the moment. I was in fact told by a certain person at the BHB that if I had come along 7 months ago I would have had a job straight away but the openings just aren’t there at the moment.<br>Money in racing is limited as it is and most organisations are unable to fund any more staff. If there aren’t any jobs then there is nothing I can do about it no matter how hard I try.<br>Steve, the point at which you suggested we had no talent was with your comment on Hammerstein…a comment that was below the belt IMO.
But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thank you for your comments, esp to those who took the time to provide them constructively rather than simply in an attempt to provoke.<br>I hope that one day soon you will be eating your words (in the nicest possible way!!):cheesy:
(Edited by lekha85 at 10:49 pm on Oct. 8, 2006)
My ire was directed not at you, lekha, but at the person who posted:
"It all comes down to who you know and not what you know…"
As I said before, this is not only palpably incorrect, it is also offensive.
Not a good tack to take in the circumstances.
Quote: from Prufrock on 10:59 pm on Oct. 8, 2006[br]Good luck, by the way. And I mean that.
Thanks x
Lekha
It seems such a shame that certain members feel the need to attack and upset people about whom they know nothing at all and make hurtful and unfounded comments.
Go back to your first comment to me.
A somewhat sarcastic "is you say so" (presumably said in that tone young people say "whatever" ), not even an attempt to address the very specific reasons I gave in my reply to Mesh. ÂÂÂ
What was that all about, then?
Lol :biggrin:
The issue I’ve taken with both you and Mesh is based on the language you both use.
You both compain that it’s not "easy".
It’s as though you either think it should be easy, or it used to easy but isn’t any more.
Now, I reckon if you decide to believe that, you’re just giving yourselves excuses for failing. And, once someone accepts failure as an outcome, they tend to fail.
But you’ve still got excuses:
I think, Steve, I should know more about my financial status than you and I cannot take out another loan, period.
Never said you should.
Where’s your answer to my suggestion that you could take a paid job AND work in racing?
Must have missed it.
Every single one has said to me that the racing industry is a closed book when it comes to jobs at the moment. I was in fact told by a certain person at the BHB that if I had come along 7 months ago I would have had a job straight away but the openings just aren’t there at the moment. <br>Money in racing is limited as it is and most organisations are unable to fund any more staff.
Sorry, but just a bunch of excuses IMO.
There’s nothing in those comments that say you can’t do unpaid work so you’ll be at the front of the queue whenever something suddenly pops up …
I’m sure Pru will agree, the time to stake your claim on a vacancy in your business is before it arises. You want to be the person standing right in front of them at the moment they realise they need a junion reporter.
And, if you can’t do that, there’s nothing in there that says you can’t write racing related stories (e.g the life of a stablehand, interview/bio with a local trainer etc etc) and submit them as a freelance to the non-racing media.
Or is the whole newspaper industry just not interested in stories at the moment?
If there aren’t any jobs then there is nothing I can do about it no matter how hard I try.
You seem to have a very restricted view of what your next step in racing must be: a paid job within "the industry".
And that’s going to close doors for you.
The simple reality is that there are plenty of things you could do to promote your chances.
The question is: are you willing to do them?
Steve
PS I’m sorry you think I’m being negative, but the two of you have a poor attitude and need a good hard kick up the arse.
PPS I can say this as I’m an old fart and, when I was your age, I spent a very large proportion of my time complaining about how "life isn’t fair and it’s all about who you know".
However, in the many, many years since I learned that thats’ a big pile of crap and that "who you know" is nothing compared to "how much you want it and how hard you’re willing to work for it".
PPPS If I didn’t want to see you and Mesh succeed, would I really have bothered writing all this?
(Edited by stevedvg at 11:48 pm on Oct. 8, 2006)
This debate about getting into racing journalism is interesting. I got into it the old fashioned way, by moving across from news reporting into racing. To get my first job after getting my NCTJ and degree, I worked unpaid on various papers around my area and when a vacancy came up I was already known to editors and therefore had a foot in the door.<br>That’s just what you have to do – Trinity Mirror even charge people the thick end of £5,000 for journalism training and don’t offer a guaranteed job at the end of it. Because so many people want to be journalists, it will always be a challenge to get your foot in the door. Once you do, there is the chance to show your ability and a rise from local to regional to national paper is perfectly possible within five or six years. If I was running the Post’s newsdesk, I would want people who had worked in the ‘real world’ before coming into racing. Most people I worked with on national newspaper racing desks had been news reporters earlier in their career.<br>I have edited the monthly Racing Ahead magazine for nearly three years now and in that time, despite appeals in the magazine, we have had no more than 10 letters from people wanting to break into racing journalism. (Before anyone says, we do have more than 10 readers!)<br>I have given nearly all of them a chance and one person is now working on the racing desk on a national newspaper.<br>I would have expected a lot more than 10 letters from people wanting to break into racing journalism during that time. We are always happy to give people a go and give bylines which helps for the cuttings file.<br>Racing Ahead doesn’t have the resources of the Post etc so we ask people to work initially without payment and then offer a small fee if a writer becomes a regular. I am always astounded when unknown writers with no other experience expect £200-plus for a 500 word article but it happens.<br>The opportunities are out there – you just have to work at it and realise that journalism of any kind won’t pay fantastically well. Despite all that, it’s still better than a proper job.<br>
I do not appreciate being told by someone who doesn’t know me and has never met me that I have "a poor attitude" and need "a kick up the arse".
My interests have changed and developed over the past year and currently I’m most active in seeking a career outside of racing/journalism, although I still keep an open mind in that area if I wish to return to it later. There are a number of reasons why I’ve done this.
I admit the "who you know" comment was a bit of a sweeping statement and in a broad sense incorrect. I have a lot of contacts but no one can deny that in racing especially, it can be harder for people without family connections to get as many breaks. Just because I say this, don’t assume I’m "moaning" or haven’t tried to do anything about it.
I do appreciate some of the more helpful comments on here though, and wish lekha the best of luck. :)
I do not appreciate being told by someone who doesn’t know me and has never met me that I have "a poor attitude" and need "a kick up the arse".
Of course you don’t.
However, when someone is complaining that breaking into a particular line of work is
"still not incredibly easy."
what does that say about their attitude towards life?
The way the two of you talk it’s like you believe that life should be "easy" and that it was easy/easier for past generations, but now it’s hard for you.
I’d bet good money that, 10 years from now, you’ll have realised that that’s just a load of nonsense.
Steve
Looks like Thatcher’s children have their knives out for the deserving poor. As attitudes go, I’d say the  common one of those in work showing no compassion for us dole boys has to be among the nastiest.
Sure, blaming others or the system isn’t exactly gonna get you very far. However, those taking offence do rather remind me of some kid with 20 A*s saying that you shouldn’t demean their achievements by deigning to broach the subject of grade inflation.
As far as The Sportsman goes, it’s news to me that they never had their full compliment of staff as I was told they had all their editorial positions filled before they were launched.
With regards to the subject under discussion, it would be interesting to know how many of those appointed were personally known to the racing editor o begin with. While I don’t doubt the talents of the writers, an outside observer would be forgiven for thinking that spending a lot of time in Sleepy Hollow acted as a bit of a ‘leg up’……….
(Edited by Glenn at 3:21 pm on Oct. 9, 2006)
I was told they had all their editorial positions filled before they were launched.
You were misinformed. That was never the case, though immediately prior to launch we had to shut up shop on recruitment due to one or two matters that were even more pressing. ÂÂÂ
With regards to the subject under discussion, it would be interesting to know how many of those appointed were personally known to the racing editor o begin with.
If you don’t include two individuals that I happened to meet just once each, through this and another forum, the answer I believe is:  4.
The majority of full-time staff in racing were totally unknown to me previously. They went to the trouble to get in touch with someone or other at The Sportsman off their own bat.
I hope you will understand that I cannot talk about recruitment or employment other than in general terms.
I don’t think life should be easy, and in some cases it isn’t – I think we all know that. It wasn’t easy gaining all my academic qualifications (although English GCSE was rather easy:biggrin: ) and it won’t be to get a job.
I accept life wasn’t easy for other generations either… I’m fully aware of that considering my parents, and my mother in particular, came from very deprived backgrounds indeed. They have done well for themselves considering the circumstances, so I’m not ignorant to this.
Of course in ten year’s time it will all be irrelevent. I’ll buy you all a round of drinks in an overpriced trendy wine bar with my hard earned cash. :cool:
Strange that Pru, because it would have been you that misinformed me!
If you’re a budding journalist who wants to look and learn from the master or just an onlooker who wants to know why the Post is still going while The Sportsman isn’t, turn to page four of today’s paper.
One of Alistair Down’s best ever.
Glenn
Maybe i’m misunderstanding, but are you saying that it was poor article writing that caused the demise of the Sportsman?
Because if so, your wrong imhaho
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.