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Who would be the highest rated horse to have run competitively on the all weather in the UK thus far?
I’d stab at Court Masterpiece, though he was below his best when second to Autumn Glory in a Group race at Lingfield. Probably the best performance on AW in Britain ratings wise was when Are youtalkingtome defied a BHB mark of 110 the other week.
they said sir percy was the worst derby winner for many a year and this entry proves it its laughable
Why shouldn’t he run in the Winter Derby? Plenty of Derby winners have subsequently turned out in Group3-level races in the past.
And why is he supposed to be such a terrible winner of the race? He won a Group 1 as a 2-y-o, second in the Guineas, and his sole poor run was in the Champion. It’s quite posible that his best trip will turn out to be 10f anyway, so why not run him and let UK racegoers see him perform?
I think contemplating running a Derby winner on the all weather is demeaning to the stature of the Derby. What on earth are Sir Percy’s connections thinking of?
Keep the horse to turf FFS. Can’t stand all weather racing as it is it is not traditional proper horse racing.
The thought of Nijinsky or Dancing Brave running on the dirt at Lingfield ……….. my god, somebody have a word.
I think some people are getting their knickers in a knot for no reason.  He’s not terribly likely to run, and it’s quite an interesting back-up plan.
If they are planning an overseas assault with him at some point later in the season it makes sense to give him a try on a surface other than turf.  Is it much different from Aidan O’Brien’s plans to bring some of his Breeders’ Cup challengers over for a spin round Wolverhampton? It isn’t exactly a seller either – enough of the Derby winners returning as 4yos have started out in theoretically uncompetitive races. ÂÂÂ
Quote: from Sal on 5:58 pm on Feb. 23, 2007[br]I think some people are getting their knickers in a knot for no reason.  He’s not terribly likely to run, and it’s quite an interesting back-up plan.
If they are planning an overseas assault with him at some point later in the season it makes sense to give him a try on a surface other than turf.  Is it much different from Aidan O’Brien’s plans to bring some of his Breeders’ Cup challengers over for a spin round Wolverhampton?  It isn’t exactly a seller either – enough of the Derby winners returning as 4yos have started out in theoretically uncompetitive races. ÂÂÂ
It all sets a precedent.
All weather racing was created to keep horse racing going through bad weather stop it having blank days.
Once a group race was added ……….. guess what others follow. Once one Derby winner runs at Lingfield …………. guess what? More will follow.
We will soon be having Championship races on the all weather like they do in the states.
The day that happens is the day I will give up following the sport.
Quote: from cormack15 on 10:40 am on Feb. 23, 2007[br]Who would be the highest rated horse to have run competitively on the all weather in the UK thus far? <br>
Detroit City
Ahhh the old AW chestnut again, there’s simply nothing wrong with the polytrack surface and it’s a godsend to those of us that like to watch racing throughout the winter months, good luck to Sir Percy for the coming season whatever surface he runs on.
PMSL @ Grassy
I’ve often thought that the best use of Southwell would be to flood the center of the track and hire it out during the summer months for those unfortunate East Midland families who can’t afford a proper get-away.
You could even use the jockeys room as a changing area, the stables as low budget ‘chalets’ and the function suite for the evening cabaret.
Damn I should have patented this idea before posting
My whole point has nothing to do with the surface or track. What I am saying is presumably the horse is going to be pretty fit near the time they have to make a decision to go to Dubai. If they are not 100% happy with him to go to Dubai I would have imagined his high level of fitness could have led him to be aimed at more valuable and prestigous races like the Tattersalls Gold Cup (over 10f) or the Coronation Cup over a course and trip that his finest hour came at.
If he does then go to Lingfield, he will then sit in his box and leaving these races pass and then to Ascot where he is likely to face hot competition on lightning fast ground….something which is has failed to recover from before.
I agree that the ‘no other suitable races before Royal Ascot’ comment by connections is pretty daft.
I don’t want to see a widescale switch of Pattern races to the all-weather, but racing is rapidly becoming more global.  To keep European racing internationally competitive, I think it is a good thing that our class horses have the opportunity to run on different surfaces domestically.
I don’t think the Breeders’ Cup should be the be-all and end-all of the flat season – Cheltenham has shown that this sometimes leads to uncompetitive racing throughout the rest of the year (happy now, Grassy :biggrin: )  but there are plenty of big international dirt races that could open up to British and Irish horses (particularly those with American bloodlines) if they just had more experience.  With the horse population growing, this need not necessarily dilute the quality of turf racing, as those suited by the all-weather might not be showing their best on grass anyway.
Quote: from Flash on 5:25 pm on Feb. 23, 2007[br]I think contemplating running a Derby winner on the all weather is demeaning to the stature of the Derby. What on earth are Sir Percy’s connections thinking of?
Keep the horse to turf FFS. Can’t stand all weather racing as it is it is not traditional proper horse racing.
The thought of Nijinsky or Dancing Brave running on the dirt at Lingfield ……….. my god, somebody have a word. <br>
With respect, you are talking utter rubbish and this post makes you look arrogant and self-righteous.
Why is it demeaning to the Derby? Its just the same as running on dirt at the Breeders Cup, like George Washington did, so does that make all the races he won worthless? I suppose that damn Bernadini and Invasor are poor horses in your book because they ply their trade on dirt?
Sir Percy’s connections are "thinking of" sending it to the Winter Derby as a backup plan. They evidently want to run it soon as they feel it benefits more from racing. As there are no turf races in early march for the horse to run in, I don’t think its silly at all? What would you do, make the horse sit on its backside through March because you would turn your nose at up at running for 50k because….. it might upset some traditionalists? On this argument the only person someone needs to have a word with is you.
Why should they stick to turf? Your argument is that you cannot stand all-weather racing. Well that’s just tough luck isn’t it because many people including me do. If you don’t like it then don’t watch it or bet on it. Nobody grabs your ear, drags you to the nearest betting shop and makes you lump on one of the horses.
It seems to me you are one of many people that just don’t like All-weather racing and will go to any lengths to put it down. All-weather racing is here to stay, and as i say above, if you don’t like it don’t watch it, but I don’t think you are qualified to tell Sir percy’s connections what to do because you don’t like a certain type of racing.
agree that the ‘no other suitable races before Royal Ascot’ comment by connections is pretty daft.
Marcus, like his mentor Dick Hern, is a creature of patterns and habit, with his charges running in the same races (and at the same meetings) each year.
I presume he is considering the Prince of Wales Stakes for the Derby winner as he did with the stable’s top Group horse, Nayef.
Sir Percy clearly didn’t enjoy his Derby win, hence connections reluctance to consider the Coronation Cup at the Epsom meeting. Which is a shame as I would have started in that most traditional of races.
As for the Winter Derby? The stable is having a golden winter there, thus increasing stable confidence, and there is a juicy £56,000 up for what will be an exercise gallop.
Winning the race will do his stud prospects no harm, the prestige of the race will rise, and the victory will set him up nicely for the season.
But I concur; the plan is very much in B territory. Dubai is the aim; as it was, once again, with Nayef.
All of this entertaining musing is ground dependant – Marcus won’t risk Sir Percy on anything with Firm in the description.
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