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Religious studies

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  • #20451
    crizzy
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    • Total Posts 789

    ..have Religious Studies on the school curriculum? I was going to ask this on the Xmas thread but thought better of it as it would be way off the point of EmmyK. So many views, all I respect. Some believers some clearly not. If you have an opinion..I’m really curious.

    #381684
    % MAN
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    • Total Posts 5104

    ..have Religious Studies on the school curriculum? I was going to ask this on the Xmas thread but thought better of it as it would be way off the point of EmmyK. So many views, all I respect. Some believers some clearly not. If you have an opinion..I’m really curious.

    As long as "Religious Studies" covers non-religious beliefs, if that makes sense, then it should be taught on the basis of comparative studies and an explanation of beliefs – what Religious Studies should NOT do is teach any belief as being a matter of fact.

    What I strongly object to is the teaching of the Christian story, or any religious story, as being a matter of fact.

    Only today I saw a school full of children being marched off to church, presumably for a Christmas service of some sort.

    Now things may have changed since my time at school but when I was a pupil Christianity was taught as being "fact" and every day we had to have a religious (always Christian) assembly and worship. Such indoctrination and brainwashing is inherently wrong.

    By all means tell Bible or other "holy" stories to children but within the same context as, for example, Aesop’s Fables – i.e. tell them as morality stories.

    #381691
    CrustyPatch
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    • Total Posts 917

    These days, Christianity is a dirty word so there’s no danger of anyone being indoctrinated by it.
    Left-wing councils have secularised public life so much that Christianity has been virtually banished from any meaningful role in the country. Look at the number of councils who have banned the word "Christmas" from any public mention. Ridiculous alternatives such as "Winterval" used to be seen as a parody but they are now becoming increasingly common.
    Schools are banned from having nativity plays in case they give "offence" to other religions (even though Christianity is supposed to be the established religion of this country). Christmas has become a vast and bloated consumer extravaganza based on materialism and selfish greed. The march of secularism is rapidly ensuring that anyone with traditional religious beliefs is being marginalised and stigmatised.
    Look at the way any Christian who dares to wear a cross at work is vilified and hounded out of their jobs. It’s all right, of course, for Muslims or other so-called minority religions to wear symbols and badges of their faith. Nobody dares challenge them, for fear of being branded racist.
    Any mention of Christian tradition is being rapidly phased out of public life. Political correctness is being used to stifle any questioning of these new anti-Christian stances.
    You’ve only got to go to any court and watch potential jurors and witnesses being sworn in. Hardly anyone chooses to swear on the Bible these days. They all want to "affirm" and "give the oath".
    Young people these days worship the gods of mobile phones, computers, iPods, iPads, Twitter, Facebook and their own selfish needs. It might sound old-fashioned but anyone who thinks these self-absorbed dunderheads care about anything or anyone but their own selfish and immediate needs is living in a fool’s paradise.
    Churches are limping by with the support of a dwindling band of older and more community-spirited people. Religion is seen as uncool, unfashionable and irrelevant. How many of today’s young people even know the true meaning of Christmas, let alone Easter? As I say, it’s an unfashionable view but try prising a young person from his mobile and asking them if it’s an unfair view.
    I remember reading that, in 20 years’ time, this will be a Muslim country. It sounded daft at the time but there’s certainly no reason to be optimistic for the future of Christianity.

    #381696
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 28423

    Absolute rubbish CP.

    There’s been one or two people asked not to wear a cross, and then make out it is every christian etc etc. Exageration after exageration. :roll:

    Value Is Everything
    #381698
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    Similar to Paul,

    Yes, we should have religious studies as part of the school curriculum.

    As long as it is every mainstream religion, including Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Sikh and even Communist and Athiest.

    Children should be taught about everyone’s "religion" so they respect others.

    However, once the age of 11 or more, they should also question every single one of them. Including things like:

    How they contradict evolution.

    What is the scientific or other evidence of things happening as each "book" proclaims? eg The stories of Jesus and Mohammed.

    I see so often whatever religion a particular person is from, they usually feel their religion is hard done by in some way. Every religion teaches this, they want to be seen as the underdog and the wronged party.

    Value Is Everything
    #381700
    CrustyPatch
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    • Total Posts 917

    There’s been one or two people asked not to wear a cross, and then make out it is every christian etc etc. Exageration after exageration. :roll:

    To be honest, I can never understand why these people who insist on wearing their crosses can’t just wear them under their clothes, as they have been asked to do. I’m certainly not condoning people taking it to the nth degree and insisting on being able to demonstrate their faith publicly.
    But it’s always one-sided. Nobody dares tell anyone to take off their turbans, veils etc because of political correctness and fear of being wrongly branded a racist. It’s the thought police who are to blame.
    It’s always Christianity that is picked on because anybody who objects cannot themselves play the race card. No Christians are going to go on to the streets burning copies of whatever holy book from other religions is deemed to be being affronted.
    It’s a dangerous area because political correctness means that there can never be a level playing field.

    #381701
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    I don’t think any religeous group should be asked to take off anything CP. Unless for security reasons.

    My point is you are taking one or two instances and believing it as the norm. A persecution complex.

    I am sure one or two people of every religeous group has been asked to do something similar.

    Value Is Everything
    #381713
    CrustyPatch
    Participant
    • Total Posts 917

    I don’t think any religious group should be asked to take off anything CP. Unless for security reasons.
    My point is you are taking one or two instances and believing it as the norm. A persecution complex.
    I am sure one or two people of every religious group has been asked to do something similar.

    I’m certainly not suggesting it is the norm but it is undoubtedly becoming much more common. As I have said, I don’t know why the people who insist on wearing their crosses can’t still wear them but just have them underneath their clothes. After all, they are still wearing them then.
    But it is true that, if anyone from any other religion or ethnic minority was asked to remove their veil, burqa or hijab or whatever, the person who did so would be subjected to the forces of Hell because of political correctness and the fear of giving "offence". I’m not condoning it but it’s a sad fact of life under the mantras of egalitarianism and political correctness.
    I bet you would be hard pressed to name a single example of where someone from another religious group has been asked to take off a burqa and where the request has not been overturned on appeal or in the courts (with the accompanying fanfare of outraged publicity, of course).
    The person asking them to do it would immediately be accused of racism and would himself or herself be sacked. It is inconceivable that anyone could possibly ask someone to take off a burqa these days and keep his or her job. The reverse is true for a Christian person who wants to wear their cross. They do not have the advantage of being able to play the race card. Bullying a Christian for vindictive, petty, secular reasons is not regarded as being racist. Indeed, rather, it is regarded as "cool" and progressive.
    There have been examples of Christians who have been sacked as registrars and similar jobs because their religious beliefs won’t allow them to take part in things like gay "weddings". Again, it is all right for the politically correct brigade to sack these people but it would be unthinkable that anyone who came from an ethnic minority would be sacked for acting on what they thought their religious beliefs forced them to do. Indeed, unlike with Christian registrars who face the sack, in those circumstances it would be the person who made the complaint against the ethnic minority person who would be sacked, for being "racist". It’s sad but that’s how it is.
    The courts have now given the backing of the law to ethnic minorities in what they will and won’t do. There have been a series of anti-Christian judgements in the High Court and the Supreme Court. The rights of Christians will always now be trumped by those of other religions because of so-called equality rights. There’s certainly no chance of a Christian claimant winning any case involving another relligion.
    They may be small examples but they prove a general truth about life in Britain today. It’s inconceivable that countries such as France would see such one-sided discrimination against what is supposed to be established religion of this country, in the name of appeasing other religions and not giving "offence".
    I stress that religion plays no part whatsoever in my daily life and I have no axe to grind at all. I just find it sad that centuries of tradition are slowly but surely being consigned to the dustbin in the name of equality. Why should we pander to people who are scared stiff that someone might be "offended" by Christmas and what it stands for? Why should we have "winter festivals" and "Winterval" instead of "Christmas"?
    We are told that ethnic minorities and other religions do not have a problem with Christmas. Why are the zealots determined to wipe it out by stealth by banning references to Christianity in case they cause "offence"?
    Young people in schools today seem to be taught everything about other religions you could wish to know but nothing about Christian belief because of political correctness. Nothing wrong with learning about other religions. It’s very good to know about such things.

    #381714
    % MAN
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    • Total Posts 5104

    Left-wing councils have secularised public life so much that Christianity has been virtually banished from any meaningful role in the country.

    But public life should be secular – why should public life be determined by a myth?

    It has nothing to do with left-wing either, the last thing I can ever be accused of is being "left-wing" but I wholeheartedly support secularisation of public life.

    France does not get much right politically but at least they do ensure that government is absolutely secular and that is in a strong Catholic country.

    Look at the number of councils who have banned the word "Christmas" from any public mention. Ridiculous alternatives such as "Winterval" used to be seen as a parody but they are now becoming increasingly common.

    I agree that is going too far

    The march of secularism is rapidly ensuring that anyone with traditional religious beliefs is being marginalised and stigmatised.

    People are free to practice (almost) any religion they wish in this country. Secularism does not prevent freedom of religious expression – what it does support is separation of religion and the state, which is right and proper.

    Look at the way any Christian who dares to wear a cross at work is vilified and hounded out of their jobs. It’s all right, of course, for Muslims or other so-called minority religions to wear symbols and badges of their faith. Nobody dares challenge them, for fear of being branded racist.

    As Ginge has already pointed out people should be free to wear whatever religious symbolism they wish – within the constraints of security.

    Any mention of Christian tradition is being rapidly phased out of public life.

    As it rightly should be, although that comment should apply to all religious doctrine, not just Christianity

    You’ve only got to go to any court and watch potential jurors and witnesses being sworn in. Hardly anyone chooses to swear on the Bible these days. They all want to "affirm" and "give the oath".

    I did my jury service twenty years ago and I have been in court many times as a witness and I have always affirmed.

    Why should somebody sweat an oath against something they do not believe in – is that not hypocritical. Swearing an oath against a bible would have as much meaning to me as swearing an oath against a copy of Aesop’s Fables.

    Churches are limping by with the support of a dwindling band of older and more community-spirited people.

    Or could it be they are limping along because more and more people are seeing through the myth?

    I also trust you are not suggesting those who go to church have a monopoly on being community-spirited?

    Religion is seen as uncool, unfashionable and irrelevant.

    Perhaps that is because many see religion as being irrelevant in the 21st century?

    Young people these days worship the gods of mobile phones, computers, iPods, iPads, Twitter, Facebook and their own selfish needs.

    I think that is a grossly unfair comment about the youth of today. I do have friends who hold strong Christian views and, trust me, their children are as much into mobile phones, computers, iPods, iPads, Twitter, Facebook as anybody else. I also know some practising Christians who are amongst the most selfish, materialistic people I know.

    It might sound old-fashioned but anyone who thinks these self-absorbed dunderheads care about anything or anyone but their own selfish and immediate needs is living in a fool’s paradise.

    I would not call your comment old-fashioned, I would call it intolerant and narrow minded.

    #381726
    Drone
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    • Total Posts 5503

    As long as "Religious Studies" covers non-religious beliefs, if that makes sense, then it should be taught on the basis of comparative studies and an explanation of beliefs – what Religious Studies should NOT do is teach any belief as being a matter of fact

    Agreed, though "non-religious beliefs" is essentially a belief in Science isn’t it? So well-catered for on the curriculum anyway.

    Don’t know if "semi-religious beliefs" such as Pantheism are taught in RE, but they certainly should be

    "Religious Studies" should form a core part of the History curriculum as belief in deities has played a key role in the evolution of human intellect, the shaping of civilizations and many a war. So it seems to me that anyone who claims to be a rounded, knowledgeable individual must have at least a rudimentary understanding of the world’s religious doctrines.

    That one may have no belief in a religion or disagree vehemently with the very idea of a deist/theist entity is neither here nor there. It is incumbent on all of us to seek an understanding of religions, as without that we cannot understand

    Homo sapiens

    The term "Religious Education" smacks of uni-religious indoctrination, which is what RE was when I was at school: Christianity thrust down the throat of innocent, impressionable children. Hated it then, hate it now

    So do away with compulsory RE and replace it with compulsory RS where it belongs: wrapped, entwined, knotted and looming large in History

    #381730
    Purwell
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    • Total Posts 814

    Happy Saturnalia to all our posters!

    #381746
    insomniac
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    Well said PaulStermeyer. Your first post said it all. Spot on.

    #381749
    moehat
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    • Total Posts 8181

    Not a Christian myself, but I’ve always maintained that, if the whole world was brought up from childhood with the principles that are the ‘ten commandments’, the world would be a much better place. I don’t think anyome has ever come up with anything better.

    #381757
    % MAN
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    • Total Posts 5104

    Not a Christian myself, but I’ve always maintained that, if the whole world was brought up from childhood with the principles that are the ‘ten commandments’, the world would be a much better place. I don’t think anyome has ever come up with anything better.

    Well I will go with four of them as being worth following Mo :lol:

    I would drop completely:-

    1-4 Irrelevant as they just re-enforce the myth

    and

    7 If it is between two consenting adults then I don’t see an issue.

    And would qualify:-

    10 There is nothing wrong with having something to aspire to as long as it does not lead to breaking number eight.

    #381764
    Mr. Pilsen
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 1684

    Not a Christian myself, but I’ve always maintained that, if the whole world was brought up from childhood with the principles that are the ‘ten commandments’, the world would be a much better place. I don’t think anyome has ever come up with anything better.

    I agree Moe- I’d never dream of coveting my neighbour’s Ox.

    #381811
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    Being brought up and having attended a Roman Catholic school, religion played a big part in my formative years – although I admit, much less so now.

    Religion, God, Jesus et al was very much a part of the the prinary and secondary school curriculum. Didn’t do me or my fellow pupils any harm.

    But then, taking photographs of the nativity plays wasn’t considered taboo when I was a lad. Commonsense, rather than political correctness was much more to the fore in those days.

    Did the religious aspect have any bearing on what kind of individuals we would turn out to be ? Well, I would say it probably did, as it seemed to instil a sense of morality and being able to know ( not just fleetingly ) the differnce between right and wrong.

    I still give money to the babies in Africa and help old people across the road – and I hold shop doors open for them …oh, and nice looking ladies ! :mrgreen:

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #381858
    CrustyPatch
    Participant
    • Total Posts 917

    But then, taking photographs of the nativity plays wasn’t considered taboo when I was a lad. Commonsense, rather than political correctness was much more to the fore in those days.

    Political correctness is the direct opposite of common sense. Zealots are stopping proud parents taking photographs and videos of their children in their school’s nativity play (just in case any of them are perverts and the photos might appear on the internet). Countless nativity plays across the country are being banned so as not to give "offence" to other religions.
    Religion is responsible for more trouble in the world than anything. A sage once said that more wars have been started in the name of religion that anything else. No doubt the answer to that would be that it’s not the religion itself that is at fault but those who are espousing it or interpreting it.
    Don’t shoot the messenger.
    This is what peaceful Muslims say when people blame their religion after there are terrorist bombing atrocities such as 9/11.
    Why people across the world just can’t live in peace with their neighbours and everyone else, whatever their religious or other beliefs, I just don’t know. Life would be so much more straightforward.
    They always say never argue with anyone about politics or religion. They really are hot potatoes.
    Happy Winter Festival and a Merry Winterval to everyone. Don’t want to give "offence" by mentioning Christmas.
    Only today, I saw a sign in Sheffield wishing everyone a "Merry Festive Season", with a picture of a Christmas (sorry, festive) tree in the background. The politically correct types there wouldn’t want anyone to be offended by saying Christmas.

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