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Brough Scott put forward the idea the other day that the King George V1 Chase should be run at Ascot rather than Kempton as Ascot can cater for a 50,000 crowd rather than a crowd of only 22,000 at Kempton.
I’ve an open mind on the subject but what do other forumites think about the idea?Cheltenham can accomodate 65,000+. Does Brough advocate moving it there??
It’s a stupid idea.
The tracks at Kempton and Ascot are not that disimilar, apart from the Polytrack turn at the former.
Cheltenham’s configuration is nothing like Kempton’s or Ascot so you aren’t camparing like with like Grassy.
He makes a reasonable point though and I wouldn’t have any great objection to such a move.
I certainly wouldn’t contemplate going to Kempton on Boxing Day – but Ascot, I would certainly go there.
His argument is about bums on seats, Paul, so the comparison with a bigger track is entirely relevant, imo, regardless of the characteristics of the racecourse.
In what way would racing benefit from such a move? Other than taking cash out of the pockets of Kempton, and putting it into the pockets of Ascot, what would it achieve?
More people at the track to watch the racing live? Do any of us seriously think for a minute, that 58,000 people would turn up at Ascot on Boxing Day? How many more punters could they reasonably expect beyond the 22,000 that Kempton currently get? Another 5,000? Another 10,000?
Regardless, even if they could fill the place, do we simply consign years of history to the dustbin, just to generate more revenue for Ascot, add a extra few grand in on-track Levy, and give another few thousand people the opportunity to watch it live?
I repeat – it is a stupid idea.
it would get my vote,its always a shame that such a important race is run at track whos facilities are not much better than a gaff track and what numptie disigned that awful winners enclosure at kempton?not to mention that daft woman pumping out take that over the pa system.
i doubt it will ever happen as that will signal the end of jumping at kempton.
with sandown too tight to have frost covers ascot is the only course that can match cheltenham with both prize money and ameniaties.
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Kempton is a flat, sharp track, and sets a completely different test to Ascot.
Horseracing is a sport, its primary objective should be to find out the best under varous disciplines. End of.His argument is about bums on seats, Paul, so the comparison with a bigger track is entirely relevant, imo, regardless of the characteristics of the racecourse.
The characteristics of the track are relevant – very little, if anything, is lost by moving the race to a similaly configured track.
In what way would racing benefit from such a move? Other than taking cash out of the pockets of Kempton, and putting it into the pockets of Ascot, what would it achieve?
We want more people to come racing, this will allow more people to see the likes of Kauto Star and other top runners live – or do you want to restrict access to the top horses?
The biggest races should be held at the biggest courses.
Taking an analogy from bladder kicking, you would not host a World Cup match as Stockport County when you have Old Trafford just down the road.
More people at the track to watch the racing live? Do any of us seriously think for a minute, that 58,000 people would turn up at Ascot on Boxing Day? How many more punters could they reasonably expect beyond the 22,000 that Kempton currently get? Another 5,000? Another 10,000?
Yes – Ascot would, I believe, easily get 35,000 through the gates and a crowd of 40,000 plus would not surprise me.
Regardless, even if they could fill the place, do we simply consign years of history to the dustbin, just to generate more revenue for Ascot, add a extra few grand in on-track Levy, and give another few thousand people the opportunity to watch it live?
Oh here we go again – playing the old tradition card. I am frankly getting sick to death of the tradition mantra. It used to be tradition to send children up the chimney, to deny women the vote. just because something is traditional does not mean it is good.
Times change – there should ne no sacred cows.
I repeat – it is a stupid idea.
and I repeat it is an excellent idea.
The characteristics of the track are relevant – very little, if anything, is lost by moving the race to a similaly configured track.
Except that the King George, as it is known now and has been for half a century, would cease to exist – to be replaced by an entirely different race with the same name.
We want more people to come racing, this will allow more people to see the likes of Kauto Star and other top runners live – or do you want to restrict access to the top horses?
It will allow a few thousand more people (at best) to be on-track – that is it.
The biggest races should be held at the biggest courses.
99% of them already are.
Taking an analogy from bladder kicking, you would not host a World Cup match as Stockport County when you have Old Trafford just down the road.
Irrelevant and unsustainable anyway. Why hold the World Cup in South Africa, when you could hold it in the USA?
Yes – Ascot would, I believe, easily get 35,000 through the gates and a crowd of 40,000 plus would not surprise me.
Based on what exactly? And even if they copped a full-house, so what?
Oh here we go again – playing the old tradition card. I am frankly getting sick to death of the tradition mantra. It used to be tradition to send children up the chimney, to deny women the vote. just because something is traditional does not mean it is good.
Times change – there should ne no sacred cows.
Paul, if tradition means nothing, then why don’t we move the King George to Epsom, drop the trip to 12f, restrict it to 3yo fillies,and call it The Oaks? Let’s face it, times change, and there are no sacred cows apparently.
and I repeat it is an excellent idea.
And I repeat again, it is a stupid idea, but we can agree to disagree.
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That’s the second time you’ve used the ‘children up chimneys’ argument in two days, Paul. Presumably you’ll be labelling Grasshopper ‘selfish and in his own little cocoon’ next?
I know it’s hard being right all of the time, but perhaps it wouldn’t hurt you to embrace the concept of tradition and not talk down to people already in its grasp? Race histories are what they are not because of racecourse attendance, but because of each component which makes up the race itself. The course, the fences, the horses, the returning champions. Would Kauto Star’s victory this year have been any more special with an extra 5,000 in the crowd? No. Would any more have been bet on the race? Not a chance. Would it have been less special at a completely different track, with no historical (both recent and not-so-recent) relevance? You bet.
Some things have to change, this doesn’t.
I have to side with the No vote here.
As quoted from below why hold the World Cup in South Africa, when you could hold it in the USA?
In fact i think its a ridiculous suggestion. Tradition is something racing should (and does to an extent) be using in its ammunition to attract new fans.
Race histories are what they are not because of racecourse attendance, but because of each component which makes up the race itself. The course, the fences, the horses, the returning champions. Would Kauto Star’s victory this year have been any more special with an extra 5,000 in the crowd? No. Would any more have been bet on the race? Not a chance. Would it have been less special at a completely different track, with no historical (both recent and not-so-recent) relevance? You bet.
So are you suggesting Kicking King should not be recorded as a two time winner of the race because it was run at Sandown in 2005 and that his second victory was somewhat inferior to his first?
I also presume you subsrcibe to the view that Group One races which are lost to the weather should not be rescheduled at other courses?
I had long thought the King George should to be taken away from Kempton in response to the ruination of the course since the introduction of the ghastly all weather. However having seen how they have ruined the winners enclosure at Ascot meaning only the nobs and snobs can get a decent view of the winning horse I’m not so sure now. It should definately NOT go to Sandown.
Most years the King George is not a complete sell out at Kempton, so why the sudden need for 50000 capacity?
Kempton is a perfect test of a top class jumper. Also being built on a gravel pit, it is far more likely to deliver good ground than elsewhere
This has long been a London boxing day out too. Its a core crowd that comes every year (and i suspect many of them its the only racing day of the year)I wonder if so many would be prepared to go that bit further out to Ascot?
Most years the King George is not a complete sell out at Kempton, so why the sudden need for 50000 capacity?
The infrastructure at Kempton cannot comfortably cope with the numbers attending the KG VI.
Even you must agree that being in a 22,000 crowd at Kempton is far less comfortable, relaxing and enjoyable than being in a 22,000 crowd at Ascot.
Therefore with the additional capacity at Ascot more people would attend because it was a better experience.
Let’s face it if Ascot can attract 27,000 plus for the Shergar Cup then it should also attract a flipping good crowd for the King George were it to move there.
However having seen how they have ruined the winners enclosure at Ascot meaning only the nobs and snobs can get a decent view of the winning horse I’m not so sure now.
Have to disagree with you there Phil, the winners enclosure is in the Parade Ring which is in the Grandstand admittance area so accessible to all apart from Silver Ring racegoers and I cannot think of any other UK racecourse which offers better tiered viewing around the parade ring.
One of the things I love about racing is that ‘sense of the past’; when I go to Cheltenham the first thing I do is touch Arkle’s statue for luck. I’ve only been to Kempton once, and that was for Dessies ‘funeral’, but, again I felt very emotional about the fact that this was his track and the King George was ‘his’ race. There’s something about racetracks; they all have their own personality which I’m sure comes from that history. I feel quite overwhelmed at Cheltenham thinking of all the great horses that have graced the course with their presence over the years. I must say, however, that I was surprised at how small Kempton was, but thought that it was really charming. If The King George went to Ascot, surely that would be the end of NH racing at Kempton? That’s quite a sad thought imo.
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