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Going by what your saying the best trainer in the world must be C St V Fox (whoever that is) who has a 100% strike rate.
An odd name to draw into the debate – Charles St V Fox is a point-to-point / hunter chase trainer responsible for retired Wincanton and Ludlow specialist Red Brook Lad and Cheltenham Foxhunters second Turthen.
He is very good, though, as it happens.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
To go back to the original question…
JP should do whatever he likes. There is obviously a friendship between JP and Jonjo, and I would suggest a gentleman does not "ditch" his friends.
To go back to the original question…
JP should do whatever he likes. There is obviously a friendship between JP and Jonjo, and I would suggest a gentleman does not "ditch" his friends.
Thats fair enough comment mate
Wish you would not abuse other members Fist. If anyone disagrees with you please keep calm.
Sorry for any confusion, but please read what I wrote carefully. Sheena (not Sara) West is up there in the list if I were "placing a horse" (probably a poorish quality animal) with a trainer. If I had a horse one thing I’d want is value for money. Don’t know how much Jonjo charges, but expect it is a lot more than Sheena. Obviously I would not put a chaser with her, though before this season she’d only 10 runners in chases in three years. She’s done exceptionally well with the stuff she’s given. Including Golan Way, who is part owned by a friend of mine. Median rating of just 75 yet has a 12% strike rate compared to 103 for Jonjo and 15% SR. Also, as she is under-estimated by a lot of punters (including yourself) her horses usually go off at a value price (+ £52). Which is another way for owners to show a profit from their horses. Unlike Jonjo, who (obviously from -£410 statistic) is to a certain degree over-estimated by punters. Not his fault, just the way it is. If Sheena was the well known one and Jonjo not so, it may well be the other way around. I just feel Jonjo’s reputation is greater than his ability.
I would put most of the trainers I mentioned ahead of Jonjo on ability, including Emma Lavelle.
I am sorry Mr Righteous
I did read what you wrote carefully…you said you rated those trainers higher than Jonjo with no mention of fees or quality of horse until now.
I also find it very strange that in 2600 posts you failed to mention your admiration for Miss West until now.
Going by what your saying the best trainer in the world must be C St V Fox (whoever that is) who has a 100% strike rate.
I could dig out plenty trainers with a better strike rate than Paul Nichols but it doesn’t make them better trainers. e.g I don’t see Barney Curley in your list and he’s got one of the best strike rates in the country around 40%. Is he therefore a better trainer than PN?
The truth of the matter is there are only so many good horses going around and the law of averages tells you the more you have in training the worse your strike rate is likely to be. When you have a yard as big as Jonjo’s with hundreds of boxes to fill you also can’t afford to be anywhere near as selective as someone with 30 boxes.
Trying to comparing one to the other by strictly painting by numbers is the type of nonsense that goes on in all forums. In the real world the people involved know there’s a lot more to training than that and the only figures that really matter are the top line and the bottom line in their annual returns.
If you don’t have painting by numbers let me know and I’ll send you one for Xmas
If you did read my post carefully Fist, then I am sorry I did not make it clear enough for you to understand what I meant. Let me try and put it another way. If I were trying to assess any trainer, one thing I’d look for is value for money. So, by using that as one (only one) of the many reasons; yes I would have Sheena West above Jonjo. But if value for money was NOT taken in to account, then Jonjo would be ahead of her. But I would still have Emma and most of the others I mentioned ahead of him.
As I said, I don’t use just one stat to judge how good a trainer is, but many stats (and opinion too). I know Jonjo has more runners than anyone else. Which would effect strike rate and backing blind £ figure. But I’ve allowed for that in my calculations. Had his £ figure been only a little above Nicholls, King, Henderson etc. Then I would say he deserves to be rated amongst the best. But it is not just a little above, it’s a mile above.
Jonjo is a good trainer, just not one of the best (in my opinion).
I don’t need painting by numbers Fist, how did you know I did watercolours?
Believe it or not, I am doing one of Dawn Run and Jonjo at the moment.Value Is Everything
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