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Banker of the day now that the going is Gd/Sft. Still 15/8 in places (which was the RP forecast price when the going was Gd/Fm)
Hope you’re correct as he’s one of out Ten To Follow main selections. I’m a bit worried about Hard Top, given Sir Michael Stoute’s record of getting a good tune out of older horses.
Absolutely, one of the horses I’d set out to follow this season; looks a simple task.
Always a bit of a worry when the phrase ‘can’t be beaten’ is used.<br>I believe there are only two dangers: Bandari, who could pose a threat if returning to his best, and the improving Munsef. Hard Top is, of course, respected, but if he was from any other stable he would be about 6/1.
Not sure about Shirocco, certainly deserves to be favourite but Stoute managed to get Mountain High back to form as a 4yo yesterday and maybe he can get Hard Top’s career back on track :)
Have to agree with this thread completley the change in going to good to soft makes the 15/8 a very very big price imo. I cant believe stoutes Hard Top has a rating of 115, i know he beat the geezer who went on to finish 2nd to scorpion in the leger but i think hard top is highly overated. May well be eatin my words later on today but i highly doubt it.
What price did you lay it at EC? I think the soft ground was the key but I lumped on so I’m happy.:)
This morning logged onto Turf Trax and saw Good to Soft with a Soft patch from 2 out to 1 out, saw the 2.66 on BF and had a bit of it.
Fancied Hard Top first time out, but the ground went completely against him. Will be a good older horse though, Don’t think he’s at all overrated. Could possibly develop into a Group 1 horse.
Every stoute horse is actually overated imo and the betting reflects it with them. I see areyoutalkingtome out at winsor in a maiden over 1m 2. of course stoute has tissue 2nd fav with only 1 run. Now if charles cyzer trained fleeting memory he’d be 12/1 at least and if stoute had areyoutalkingtome he’d be 4/9. Altho works beeter for me sumtimes as u always get a bit of value with a powerful stable going up against a small 1.
If anyone can tell me why Hard Top is rated so high, I’d love to hear it.
He won a falsely run Great Voiteguer (sp?) and thats it. Not shown much else for me. Now Munsef is a horse who may progress well this season.
No doubt but thats what happens with all horses from the big yard. Why do you think the winner of the big one today was still 20’s after the Nell Gywnn. Bookmakers are much more afraid of talking horses from these yards.
EC, as a shrewd layer of horses that you are, i was surprised you took on shiroco. Surely the horse wouldnt have even needed to be fully fit to beat that lot and more to the point, why come the whole way to Newmarket for a prep race. Although I suppose in modern times, its probably just as easy as bringing anywhere more local.
SHL
Interesting to hear how Fabre spoke about Shirocco after the race.
He seems to rate him very close to Hurricane run. The Corantion cup should not be missed, although it is a pity Shawanda misses out.
Andrew, Hard Top will love a hard top, and showed his class when winning the Great Voltigeur.
Don’t quite see how it was falsely run – was 1.54 seconds slower than standard, and he beat The Geezer, Brahminy Kite, Kong, etc. He’ll improve, and would be very happy to back him on a quick surface.
The Guardian reported a few weeks ago that all and sundry in the Stoute stable have Hard Top as their horse for this season. I didn’t see the race yesterday but would think they would have been disappointed finishing last and a long long way behind.
I suppose this is purely a top of the ground horse and should noot be dismissed next time out on this sort of surface.<br>
I think most of us know that the Stoute team are peerless when it comes to placing horses, and if they think Hard Top is going places, they will probably be proved correct as the season unfolds.
However, most of us only use the factual information in the form book and put no value on reputation or hype even if we know it may be well founded.
The form book tells us that he is very useful on good or firm ground(RPR, 118) and he has disappointed on three runs on softer ground. Also, he hasn’t achieved a Topspeed rating commensurate with his RPR, so still has a bit to prove. The Great Voltigeur was described in the RP as ‘not a vintage renewal’, so he may be a bit overrated strictly on that form.
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