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I can’t believe now that my interest in racing started with Flat racing. I now can’t think of one redeeming characteristic. There’s far too much of it, and mediocrity abounds amongst horses, trainers, and particularly jocks. It’s always had that overblown hype associated to it, mainly because the vast majority of horses are only around for five minutes.
As regards a punting medium it has now become a bookmakers paradise. They have never had it so good. They don’t actually need to have 6 handicaps on 7 race cards because they seemingly have the condition races sewn up as well. In terms of results it’s now hard to tell the difference between a Group race and a handicap. It seems they can get a result just as easily in a 5 runner Group race as a 16 runner handicap. The season started with a 33/1 Lincoln winner, maybe not such a surprise, but we now have 50/1 and 33/1 Group winners, plus Classic bingo at 16/1 and 28/1. These results coming at supposedly the sport’s premier racecourse, and not on extreme going. Punters have two chances to win pre-race, the odd big dart or inside information, the rest may as well be setting fire to money. I don’t think that situation is good for the sport at all. Eventually, even the mugs will see the light.
Will the results change? Personally, I think the rot has well and truly set in. A better question is probably is it even worth waiting find out?
“Bookmaker’s paradise” my arse.
“but we now have 50/1 and 33/1 Group winners, plus Classic bingo at 16/1 and 28/1”.
Speaking as someone who backed that 50/1 winner at rates from 110 down to 100… And the 16/1 winner @ 24 down to 20 and the 28/1 shot @ 34 down to 29 (all tipped up on TRF) I’m loving this flat season. No “inside information”, just studying form and working out who’s value.
…And I was nowhere near the only one who backed them. There were very valid reasons to do so.
Flat horses – even the Group 1 horses – seem to run more often than jumps horses these days… And I remember in the 80’s / 90’s when the Derby winner was often carted off to stud immediately after Epsom. Now they have a full campaign and often come back at four.
As Jimmy rightly says Stilvi, if you believe punters don’t have any chance because the favourites don’t win, then that logic suggests laying all favs would result in profit.
Back in the day all we saw was Peter O, Julian W and co going through the motions and never speaking up. Always remember there is far more scrutiny on TRF, social media, racing channels and ITV – of jockeys, trainers and horses these days. That does not mean they are any worse than in the past.
tbh I don’t particularly enjoy the poorer quality racing either and yes there is too much Racing. But you can get rid of RacingTV and SkyRacing and just enjoy the top class racing on ITV.
But the number of times you’ve come up with these negative posts – not just on the flat… if you are not enjoying Racing then yes it may be best – for you – to find another interest.
Value Is EverythingI’d have flat racing all day every day , lower grades are same world over but this weekend we’ve had cracker races at top level in UK , USA , Japan , international competition , jockeys from all over , horses in US from UK , Japan trying their kuck , imho it’s better than ever .it is also not all geared towards one or two meetings , it’s week after week.
“And I remember in the 80’s / 90’s when the Derby winner was often carted off to stud immediately after Epsom.”
Your memory is letting you down, Ginge.
During those two decades, only two Derby winners didn’t run again, and one of those (Golden Fleece) was through injury. The other, Secreto, was a commercial decision.
On the subject of the initial post, whilst I agree that there is too much racing and much of it is run only for the bookmakers, saying that long-priced Group winners is a turnoff is laughable. Would you prefer 2-11 shots winning everything?
The only thing I’d say to Stivli is its early season form. These big priced winners come up a lot at two stages of the flat season which are the beginning when you have no idea who is in form (trainers) or who is fit and the end when everyone is over the top and the ground turns testing. Check out some of the results from Ascot Champions Day down the years, its a bloodbath on terrible ground. The classics can’t really be put down as bingo when half of them have only run a handful of times and are open to no amount of improvement, its not as if you’ve got years of solid form to go off. If anything a handicap full of quite exposed horses would be far easier to solve than a Derby when half the horses haven’t run over the trip and no idea how they’ll handle the track.
TTM,
Punters can identify horses that are likely to improve because of their inexperience and allow for that in the price they are willing to take about each horse. Ditto with those that haven’t run over the distance – by studying breeding and taking account of the horse’s temperament. Those who take a hold at lesser distances are less likely to stay as far as their breeding suggests. Whereas those that settle well are likely to stay further than their breeding suggests etc. You can also have some idea of those that will and won’t handle Epsom by how they’ve coped with undulating tracks before. Not that many horses have lost the Derby through not acting on the track. It can be a convenient excuse connections of beaten horses come out with.Value Is EverythingApologies Glad’, you’re correct. However, I do remember people complaining about Derby winners being packed off to stud too early much more then, than they do now.
Value Is EverythingI thought I would bump this back up as another thread has been started along similar lines. For some reason that thread has received a bit more response.
Strangely, Ginger hasn’t rolled up to try and bash that thread.
That’s Ginger the man who finds the game so easy he requires numerous goes (even in small fields) to generate a profit. Could you imagine the likes of Segal and Kealy putting up three or four in a race. They would be laughed off the paper.
Subject even made ‘Talking Points’ on Racing TV this morning. Unfortunately, the ‘discussion’ was so pitiful it may as well have not been included. Cheerleading only. Just involved a load of waffle, and zero realisation of the importance of the situation. You even got that guy who regularly turns up and embarrasses himself suggesting that trainers might not be taking the early Classics seriously. You couldn’t make it up.
This is all about perception of the sport and the impact on betting. That’s quite important and shouldn’t really be dismissed so lightly. Many punters have now migrated to in-running betting because they simply can’t hack it picking before the race. That’s a shocking indictment. At the other end of the scale the more casual punters are eventually going to give up, or find another sport.
“That guy who regularly turns up and embarrasses himself”.
Presumably you mean Neil Channing? Why does he keep getting invited onto the programme? We are asked to believe he is some sort of big shot punter but I had never heard of him before Luck gave him a platform.
Some of their guest make the segment so frustrating to watch – Channing is a complete pillock and seems to be rolled out as the ‘common man of the people’ type guest and don’t even get me started on Dave Yeats….by the time he has almost managed to get a complete fully formed sentence out of his mouth the timer has already counted down to zero for that particular subject.
I always thought the timer shouldn’t start to tick down until after the presenter has mentioned the topic and explained what the issues are because quite often after they have done that 30+ seconds have already elapsed.
I would imagine given the early time slot (and getting to the studio in time) and being on a Sunday, outside of the special guests, they might be limited on who actually wants to turn up and do it hence the reason we see a lot of the usual suspects….Lee Mottershead is usually not bad.
“I thought I would bump this back up as another thread has been started along similar lines. For some reason that thread has received a bit more response.
Strangely, Ginger hasn’t rolled up to try and bash that thread.
That’s Ginger the man who finds the game so easy he requires numerous goes (even in small fields) to generate a profit. Could you imagine the likes of Segal and Kealy putting up three or four in a race. They would be laughed off the paper”.
——————————————-Yes, I can quite believe you would laugh at those who make a profit, Stilvi. Without – as per usual – thinking things through.
What you conveniently ignore is the fact that if I did not get value with my “numerous goes”, then I’d be losing more than someone who just has one go.
…My way of betting is no easier to make an overall profit than only betting one horse per race. Because although by backing more horses in each race means I will win more often, it also requires a far greater strike rate of winners per race.
Making a profit isn’t “easy” at all. It’s just EASIER than many people (including you Stilvi) make out.
I have not replied to that other thread yet, because I have only today come back off holiday. Not that I think it is anywhere near the out and out negativity of this / your thread.
Value Is EverythingI think you are way off the mark with Gingertipster Stilvi. It’s far harder doing what
Ginger does than most do. I read his thread and I can confirm his 110/1 to 100/1 recently
and the 2 others around the 30/1 mark. I don’t need to speak up for Ginger, he’s well
capable of doing that himself, but I can’t have someone turning a blind eye to the facts
to suit their arguement.Plenty of odds on chances got turned over yesterday. There must be some mileage in laying them, at least in the mid week dross.
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