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Fellow TRF members
I’m sure you’ve read about the rebranding project being carried out by racing, and there are a number of ‘working groups’ that have been set up to develop ideas and suggestions across a number of areas. One of those areas is the Raceday Experience, and I have found myself on that particular group. Totally understand the cynicism about the make-up of the groups but I hope we can put that aside for this particular thread. I am a punter and do go racing, so have a fairly strong opinions about what I feel some of the issues are, as I’m sure you all do too.
I’m keen to hear your thoughts/ideas on this topic, however big or small, particularly in relation to aspects such as communications, food & beverage, retailing, information, customer services, public spaces, betting, pre-race, the race and post-race, and other leisure activities.
The more views the better, and early next week I’ll send all the comments round the rest of the group.
Many thanks in advance.
Paul
It’s a minor point in the overall picture, but it’s indicative of racing’s love of jargon and obfuscation.
On the racecourse, when there’s a late non runner, the race is followed by strictly scripted announcement about ‘Rule 4 deductions authorised by bookmakers’.
It usually sounds as if it’s being read by a man whose native language is Serbian, and whose English Linguaphone set was missing a couple of discs.
To the average once per year racegoer, it’s incomprehensible. When I was a regular on course, I lost count of the number of people that I spoke to after such an announcement who didn’t know that it meant they could get their money back on the non runner.
So why oh why doesn’t the announcer just add ‘if you backed number X, bookmakers and the Tote will refund your stake’.
I might add that I asked this question of the Jockey Club approx ten years ago after writing an article about the subject – I was assured it would be changed!
As I say, it’s a small point, but I can assure you that people who’d lost money on a horse that wouldn’t go in the stalls invariably felt that they’d somehow been cheated – and that’s because we just assume that people will know the way the system works.
I’ve also sent you a PM on a separate point which needn’t concern the rest of the forum.
Good luck getting that one through Alan. I won’t be taking 1.01 with the King of the Sleepers, Simon Clare, sitting on multiple committees.
Did you know that with at least one bookmaker (not Clare’s) it is or was a disciplinary offense for a member of staff to alert a punter that they had money due from a non-runner?
On the racecourse, when there’s a late non runner, the race is followed by strictly scripted announcement about ‘Rule 4 deductions authorised by bookmakers’.
I’m with Alan on this one. During my bookmaking days I was threatened by a punter after the last race at Nottingham while trying to explain that £100 at 7-2, minus a 10p Rule4, doesn’t return £450. He had about six beered-up mates with him who were all calling me a "f***ing thieving ****". As it was about 10 minutes after the last race, the ring inspector had gone home and just to complicate matters the horse returned at 7-2 in the reformed market.
Good luck getting that one through Alan. I won’t be taking 1.01 with the King of the Sleepers, Simon Clare, sitting on multiple committees.
Did you know that with at least one bookmaker (not Clare’s) it is or was a disciplinary offense for a member of staff to alert a punter that they had money due from a non-runner?
Completely off topic, of course, but Glenn is correct as I have recently discovered. Not being in a hurry to collect my bets when ahead on cash business, I’ve been approached by members of staff in two shops to ask if I’d forgotten to collect. Both made it abundantly clear that they would be in trouble if it was discovered that they had approached me. I think this is utterly disgraceful.
Paul,
Perhaps it’s already a feature at courses but I would have thought that some supermarket retail outlets (e.g. M+S, Tesco etc.) within the racecourse might attract a wider audience and meet the individual needs of shopping and leisure family customers. I just think that for the racecourses to expand and prosper there needs to be full collaboration with the major growth industry in the Country.
Good wishes
KI love racing always have and always will, so much that I throw my money down the drain each year to own horses.
However I get very angry with the us and them attitude that still prevails.
For instance at the big meetings I can understand it, but with your bog standard mid week meeting why on earth do you have seperate enclosures. To me it just sends out the wrong signal. Other things which annoy me and I know baffle my un racing friends who I sometimes convince to come are:
Why can’t I take my drink outside of the bar and watch the races at the same time?
What gives a racecourse the right to tell me what to wear?
Why do trainers think it is beneath them to talk to the punters via the press, without whom they wouldn’t have a job.I think that the last point is probably the most pertinent, and the best way to popularise the sport is to make it more personal. Take a look at the way that Setanta cover the Blue Sq Premier football, they have the managers announcing their own team, they talk to the managers during the game, and often interview players as they are walking off the pitch.
I think racing needs to realise that it is an entertainment industry and embrace the opportunities that new technologies give it. Why not mic jockeys up during a race? Why not televise stewards enquirys etc. etc.
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This is a joke, surely? The BHA see fit to hand over £250,000 to a company who proceed only to pigeon-hole racegoers and state the blindingly obvious, and then send one of their men here seeking free consultation?
I’d laugh if it wasn’t so painfully depressing.
I don’t think racing stands a chance when we have a governing body so incapable of doing its job – does no-one within the BHA have the capacity to think creatively? Or is it simply easier to throw money at someone else and risk, as it turns out, a repeat of the Olympic logo farce?
I think Ken’s suggestion of introducing supermarkets to racecourses is, in all honesty, absurd. If you want to re-brand racing and draw in a new, more diverse audience, then giving them every reason not to watch the action is utterly pointless.
The first thing that needs to change is cost. By the time you’ve covered the petrol to get to the course, paid £25-35 to get in, purchased a racecard and stocked up on refreshments, you’re already looking at a considerable amount of money. I can get from Nuneaton to Liverpool and back, and watch my beloved St Helens (80 minutes of non-stop sport), for a lot less – and that’s without having had a bet.
Why can’t a card system be implemented (I’m sure the BHA’s management company can think up a name for a mere twenty grand) whereby racegoers are rewarded with discounts the more they go racing? There needs to be a rapid appraisal of prices in general, but a reward scheme has worked in just about every other industry it’s been used, so why not this one?
The second thing is accessibility. Those who aren’t introduced to the sport at an early age may form a rather negative view of it through what they read in the ‘general’ media (who is going to think to turn to the 12th last page in the sport section to read up on horseracing). ‘Corrupt’, ‘gambling’ and ‘expensive’ are all phrases assured to reduce potential attendance figures.
So, why not subsidise school trips to local yards? The BHA pay a small fee to cover the yard’s costs of hosting a morning/afternoon event and children can be taught about keeping horses fit, making sure they’re healthy, what a working day involves and take a tour of the facility (if they can watch a horse or two in action, all the better). This could even extend to the sponsorship of riding schools, nurturing someone’s interest or perhaps offering them a way in to the sport (career wise).
Racing needs to learn that it has no god-given right to limitless audiences and that it needs to find them, grab them around the throat (metaphorically of course) and say ‘come and watch this, you’ll love it’.
Here’s my suggestions:
1) Put on cards that racegoers want to see not ones that bookmakers want to see
2) Actually police racing with punter confidence in mind. I read that you have 52 people on your integrity team, yet quite brazen defrauding of punters still goes on far too often with not so much as a question asked. Look to Hong Kong as your example.
3) If you have to collaborate with a betting organisation make it the tote and get someone in to buck up their ideas.
4) Publish horse’s weights
5) When someone is warned off don’t let them back the next day
6) Stop watering unless absolutely justified on safety grounds
7) Those on your committees who have a status of ‘at war’ with the betting public, and there are quite a few, are unlikely to aid your cause. These people need to be swiftly dropped.Racing is seen as a seedy clip-joint by the wider public because that’s precisely what it is in many regards. A thorough clean-up is needed.
Equitrack wrote: …I think Ken’s suggestion of introducing supermarkets to racecourses is, in all honesty, absurd.
Not, Equitrack, if the supermarket ethos rubs off on the bookmakers e.g. have two bets – get one free.
or if the cost of having a snack in Tescos is a fraction of the course concessionary caterers.
or if they supply trolleys so I can wheel away all my winning dosh.
or I can purchase a bottle of vino at less than an arm and a leg.
or I can return home with the weekly shopping all done and dusted leaving me more time to watch the racing channels.You want more people watching the racing? Let’s be brutally honest here.
The bottom line for the BHA is surely just about numbers through the turnstyle. It’s about cash generation, no more no less. Does it really matter to them how many people actually look at the horses? I think not.
KThings that have annoyed me recently at racetracks; pulling into the car park at Uttoxeter and having to walk past men peeing up the fences; yuk. Having an on course bookmaker totally blank me because I wanted to place a small bet; I asked him if he took such a bet [there was nothing in writing on his stand] and, instead of telling me he just blanked me and went straight to the man standing behind me.I’ve never left a racecourse feeling so miserable. Racing used to be a social event, a place to see and be seen. Maybe people want to buy into the idea that they are doing something quite posh but where they feel welcome. After my glorious day at Nottingham I realized that there is something quite nice about making an effort with one’s appearance [ok; I didn’t, but I might try harder next time!].As for youngsters, my kids grew up in a household full of racing and visits to the racecourse and going to visit Dessie every year; neither of them now show any inclination to go racing or even watch it on the telly. Sport has to be on terrestrial television to attract new people, as well; I loved it from watching it on Saturday afternoon with my Dad.Hardly bet at racetracks these days because of ew bets being 1/5 for a place, and minimum bets with the Tote are getting higher all the time.
People can do all they want to re-brand racing. The fact is you can’t stop people from being fed up at losing. People give in because it’s tough going, not because there’s no bouncy castles or cheap beer.
The potential audience is the gambler, not the public as a whole. Alot of gamblers know that racing is a mugs game, and there are better ways to try and win without looking to point the finger at your own ills. There are too many fingers to be pointed at in horse racing.
Do people really want to encourage youngsters to bet ? I really don’t see any positives in it.
The "Raceday Experience" begins with the handing over of hard-earned at the turnstiles. Paying a ‘premium’ for admission to the ‘premier’ meetings may be justified but for the bulk of everyday run-of-the-mill meetings the cost of admission is excessive.
Whilst not advocating across-the-board free admission have any surveys actually been conducted by the BHA into the success – or otherwise – of Towcester’s initiative?
Has the free admission not actually been deleterious to the course’s finances due to the (presumed) increased crowd spending what they’ve saved – and more – on-course?
Has on-course betting turnover – hence levy – increased?
Has free admission attracted many first-time racegoers?
Did these new faces ‘testing the water’ enjoy the experience and repeat it, either again at Towcester or by being willing to pay for entry elsewhere?
Has the demographic profile of those at Towcester altered e.g more youngsters, families, women… and err…Bens
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So why wouldn’t racecourses just lower their prices, Ken, rather than see 95% of non-betting turnover go to Tesco or M&S? And why, in the name of all that is holy, would someone want to do their weekly shop having done their nuts at
insert course here
?
It makes no sense whatsoever (which I believe qualifies you for a £50,000 cheque from the BHA).
Equitrack,
If I’m absolutely truthful, I have a confession to make – the one and only time I’ve attended a racecourse was to watch OXO win the Grand National. I know what some will think – " what a cheek, he’s not fit to grace this forum! "
My original post was because I felt sorry for Paul seeming to be getting criticism when I imagine he gets it from several fronts. Yet, I still think that there is a place for my suggestion in terms of racing attracting partners from other blue chip commercial ventures, and not the flea market type of businesses who hire a pitch on race days. Other posters have referred to the stigma that surrounds horseracing for many, many people. Therefore if you want to attract more people to the hub of the sport it requires entering the public psyche and normalising the activity – hence my belief that by having supermarkets in close proximity to the racing then invariably a percentage of shoppers will also be conditioned into marrying the two and whilst one partner and kids might choose to spend a couple of hours perusing the clothes rails, the other might prefer to venture closer to the running rails/betting action; and all parties might wish to meet up on the course to spend a couple of hours together.
Even though it might be a daft idea, I look forward to my big cheque please.
K
p.s. My consultancy services are available should the BHA require same.Paul, for me the Raceday Experience would be greatly improved if racecourses would do something to restrict the areas into which alcohol can be taken. I have no problem whatsoever with people drinking on course and I accept those who do almost certainly make a significant contribution to a racecourse’s income but surely it’s possible to regulate things so that the enjoyment of those who don’t drink and who go racing to look at the horses in the paddock, have a bet and watch the action from the stands isn’t ruined.
You’ll no doubt have read the letters in today’s Post about the events at Thirsk on May 2. We know from newspaper reports and from various internet forums that there was serious trouble at Newmarket on the same day. This sort of thing is turning decent racegoers off going to the track, especially on Saturdays. I’ve not been on a Saturday since Leger Day 2007 and the thing I found most objectionable that day was the number of people the worse for drink standing by the parade ring/ unsaddling enclosure with pints of beer in their hand. And you couldn’t walk around without standing on discarded plastic pint containers. Why is this allowed? I was at York on Magnet Cup day in 1987 when there was a huge amount of alcohol-fuelled violence which culminated in Cyril Lynch, a bookie in his 70s, being knocked unconscious by drunks after a controversial stewards’ enquiry amended the result of the big race. There was much wringing of hands afterwards and various changes were recommended including restrictions on where alcohol could be taken on the course. Gradually, these restrictions seem to have been eased on many tracks. Doncaster is one example but it’s not the only one. Last week, for example, racegoers at Chester could be seen on TV with pints of beer in their hands as they watched the horses in the parade ring.
Racecourses aren’t looking after their core support. Turning themselves into open-air nightclubs alienates the regular racegoer but they don’t seem to be bothered. There has always been the option of going racing in midweek when the problem is less pronounced but even that is changing. Chester (May), York (May), Newmarket (July) and York (August) now all race on a Friday where they didn’t used to and it seems pretty clear to me that this is simply an attempt to attract those "making a weekend of it": drinkers, in other words.
I’m not asking that drinking be banned. But what’s wrong with restricting it to drinking indoors and not in the open air? Parade rings, pre-parade rings, unsaddling enclosures and betting rings should be no-go areas for alcohol on every course.
Well, here are four observations.
Prices:
The admission charges in this country are insanely high, they need to be brought down to a more realistic level for all but the festival meetings. £10 a pop should be the absolute maximum. It wouldn’t be so bad if the cost of food and drink weren’t so high, but the racegoer is being shafted all ways at present. Hard to believe, I know, but a lot of "ordinary" people find it difficult to afford £20 admission, £10 for a beer and a sarnie, and that’s before they’ve had a bet. For £20, I can get into
all
the top three events in their disciplines in France – the Arc
and
the Grand Steeple-Chase de Paris
and
the Prix D’Amerique – and maybe still have a cent or two left over.
Officials:
Can we please have a voluntary ban on the wearing of trilbys and bowler hats by racecourse officials? These items of apparel, although still widely worn by members of the public 50 years ago when I made my first visit to a racecourse, are now just an anachronism, and make people feel as though they’ve accidentally stumbled into a Harry Enfield sketch. And some of them, the rest of their attire – the threadbare county look – makes them appear like they’re more prepared for a day’s ratting, rather than assisting the racegoer. Offputting and unwelcoming. (Although I’m sure that none of your committee ever dress up in such gear).
Racecards:
Yes, they are a big improvement on what they were, but surely it’s possible to print detailed form a la Racing Post or Sporting Life for the last three outings say, for every runner. I seem to remember seeing this done at a few foreign courses I visited back in the 60s. With the technology to produce this so cheaply and widely available nowadays, this is long overdue in the UK. Apart from died-in-the-wool Brians, the modern racegoer doesn’t really want to be faffing around with a 60 page Racing Post, as well as simultaneously trying to juggle a racecard, pen, drink etc, to see how their fancies performed last time out. For women racegoers, there’s often a handbag involved as well to make things even more of a performance, as no doubt the female members of your committee will be able to confirm.
The horses:
It is high time that racecourses started penalising trainers who don’t get their charges into the parade ring on time for spectators to have a look at them. Pretty well every race, there’s one or two who manage just half a lap before the jockeys get mounted. This is supposed to be a professional sport, for goodness’ sake.
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