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I don’t see they had much choice, CAS.
I’ve always said there was less – not more – to Sunak than meets the eye and that’s he’s more right wing than many realise (Covid forced him into the role of the public spender).
But even I thought he’d have more to offer intellectually than this.
He doesn’t actually seem THAT bright, does he?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“I don’t see they had much choice, CAS.”
Why so? It was a group of Conservative MPs who decided to oust him. He was under pressure but I don’t think it would have been enough to force him out if the parliamentary party had held its nerve.
I am not a fan of him at all but it is undeniable that the Conservatives were far better off in the polls with him as PM rather than Truss or Sunak.
I always thought Johnson’s unpopularity was far higher amongst journalists and left wing commentators on social media. Less so amongst the public and certainly amongst the Conservative Party grass roots.
A problem Sunak has is the membership think he stabbed not one but two PMs in the back, both voted for by them. A lot of the members will refuse to campaign for him.
And he is a dull as ditch water technocrat, with no appeal to the voters.
“Why so?”
Because while I take your point about the media and some in the Westminster bubble gunning for him, outside of all that the opinion polls did consistently indicate most voters had come to regard him as corrupt and his honeymoon with the public was long over.
Yes, “the herd” at Westminster moved against him, but only because the polls said he was no longer a winner for them.
The fact his successors turned out to be even worse doesn’t alter that fact for me.
“Boris wasn’t so bad after all?”
Only comparatively – he was still bad.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"But the polls were absolutely nothing unusual for a government in mid-term.
Now they are horrendous for the Conservatives and it will take a miracle for them to be the largest party, never mind win.
I cannot deny things have turned even worse for them since – I think at that time they were still odds-on favourites to win most seats at the next election.
They certainly aren’t now.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The SNP will be thrilled to see Johnson return; just the boost the independence campaign needs
Befair, I have in jest said when Johnson was PM that every time every time he opened his trap support for Scottish independence increased but there might be something in it.
‘Btw, to give credit where it’s due, Richard was asking on the forum why on Earth Labour weren’t odds-on favourites long before they even became market leaders.’
You remember my posts better than I do! If only my money had been put where my mouth was!
I do think the Tories would be polling better (or perhaps less badly) with Johnson still at the helm. There is this bizarre cult surrounding figures like him and Trump where their core support will forgive any amount of lies, corruption and various other grubby goings on that constantly surround them. That said, the game was up with the wider public and I don’t think he’d have led them to victory.
I think part of their problem has been getting rid of the ‘Tories the rest of us don’t mind so much’ like Clarke or Stewart. Johnson surrounded himself with yes men and women and oversaw a drift to the the right that was certainly accelerated by Truss and is not abating under Sunak. Like Ian, I grossly overestimated Sunak’s ability, he’s the weakest of their recent leaders.
Britain as an average is probably moderately right of centre but they are straying too far for many. Starmer just needs to sit back, watch them implode and, as he has been doing, tell the Corbynite left of his party (many of whom would seemingly rather see a Tory government than a centrist Labour one) to bugger off and leave him to it.
“I think part of their problem has been getting rid of the ‘Tories the rest of us don’t mind so much’ like Clarke or Stewart.”
“Britain as an average is probably moderately right of centre but they are straying too far for many.”
Two key comments I am in complete agreement with.
When the Tories are in power – and especially when they have leadership contests – all the non-Tories watching try to find the one they least dislike, while battling their inner “but they’re still a Tory” truism.
It’s become increasingly difficult in recent years.
Gone are the ones you feel are the most moderate and reasonable – no more Ken Clarke or Rory Stewart.
Perpetual rule by any Party inexorably moves the country in the direction of their political polarity.
Since 1979, 31 years of Tory government puntuated only by 13 years of moderate New Labour rule, has resulted in the most right wing Britain in my lifetime.
The Tories are the natural rulers of this country in any first-past-the-post system, many of my fellow lifelong non-Tories are in denial about this but it’s manifestly true because they keep winning elections.
Things have to be really bad and the nation needs to feel really insecure for Labour to get a go.
The pendulum has finally swung back in that direction and Starmer is furiously selling himself as even more moderate than Blair.
He probably doesn’t need to be kicking Corbyn out to win, he could probably be supportive of the likes of Mick Lynch and win.
But Starmer wants to win big, send the Tories into the wilderness for a long time.
A landslide invariably wins you the next election as well as the one you just won.
The country has moved too far to the right – it’s time for, if not a shift back to the left, at least another period of Blairite pause.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The likes of Clarke and Stewart are never going to win a Conservative leadership election for the reason they are not Conservatives. They are really left of centre, moderate socialists. Both could easily have served in Blair’s Cabinet.
And Stewart is a bit weird.
Ian Davies said:
The country has moved too far to the right – it’s time for, if not a shift back to the left, at least another period of Blairite pause.
It’s time for a revolution!
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highways“They are really left of centre, moderate socialists. Both could easily have served in Blair’s Cabinet.”
I guess we all have our differing frames of reference and definitions, CAS.
But to me it’s an indicator of how much the country has shifted to the right to read the word “socialist” appear in the same sentence as Clarke and Stewart – or come to that, Blair.
Corbyn’s a socialist, Foot was a socialist – none of that trio are in my book.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"No argument with that, sir!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The likes of Clark and Stewart are more like One Nation Tories or Social Democrats, like many of the Mainstream EU politicians.
Corbyn was, and still is, an International Socialist but has always been anti-EU as he sees it as basically one huge capitalist block.Back to last night and the latest poll.
The Tories issues run much deeper than just Mid-Term blues.
Bullet point summary, otherwise my post will go on and on.
The Economy – inflation, rising interest rates, high energy bills.
Lost control – that’s the perception anyway, although imho Bailey and BoE have a lot to answer for.
Internal faction squabbling.
Been in power (in some form) for over 12 years.
Devoid of ideas.
A taxation policy that is increasingly alien to its ‘natural’ supporters.
Brexit ‘freedoms’ not really delivered.
The millions of Middle Britain voters are typically ‘floating’ voters, so any moderation in Labour policy switches, at least some of them, back on to voting for a more Social Democratic Labour party.
Some of the covid era shenanigans prob still rankle with some.My twopenny worth, fwiw.
Worth plenty, I’d say – I’d agree with a lot of that analysis.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"A good list I would agree.
I would add that the self styled ‘party of fiscal responsibility’ and of ‘law and order’ have done their best to trash that particular reputation over the last few years.
They really don’t have much left, hence the focus on things like the ‘small boats’ fiasco and ‘culture wars’ nonsense.
“Been in power (in some form) for over 12 years.”
It will be 13 years in May. The same amount of time as the last Labour government.
I think this is a significant factor. Sooner or later governments run out of road and out of luck. A similar thing is happening with the SNP in Scotland.
It looks to me as if Labour will win and by enough to be in power for a decade. Then it will similarly run out of road and a revived Conservative Party that wants power again will take over for its turn. And the dreary cycle continues.
I do think it is worse for the Conservatives because of Sunak. He clearly has a big opinion of himself but it is not shared by voters. Lots of people see him as a snake in the grass with more ambition than ability.
Remember he registered the ghastly domain name “Ready For Rishi” in December 2021, when the Covid situation was still the main political issue and when he was Chancellor and supposedly a loyal member of the government. Aside from the obvious egotism, I don’t think people like such obviously disloyal behaviour.
I am sure we have all worked with people we would not turn our back on. He’s one of them.
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