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Raslan – Will Questions Be Asked?

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  • #16034
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    On Wednesday 19th December 2007, David Pipe was called to the Stewards’ room at Bangor to explain the apparent improvement in form of the then four-year-old Raslan.

    The trainer failed to offer an explanation and, in the absence of any other relevant information, no enquiry was held.

    On Sunday 23rd August 2009, David Pipe was called to the Stewards’ room at Newton Abbot to explain the apparent improvement in form of the then six-year-old Raslan.

    The trainer suggested that Raslan was better suited by the fitting of a first-time tongue strap, having a visor re-applied and faster ground. In the absence of any other relevant information, no enquiry was held.

    Skip forward nine outings, a cumulative distance beaten of over 300 lengths (not including a pulled-up when tailed off) and the re-application of a tongue strap and visor for the first time since finishing a close fourth (backed) to Trenchant in November 2009 and, what do you know, Raslan belies truly abismal form to win a competitive handicap pretty comfortably.

    Are we to believe that it is merely coincidence that Raslan just happens to win a) the same race he did last year when similarly out of form, b) when well-backed even before the withdrawal of There’s No Panic, c) when the visor and tongue strap that so dramatically improved his performance twelve months ago are suddenly re-applied for the first time in seven races, and d) when tactics are mysteriously changed from ‘held up’ to ‘led every yard of the way’?

    I dare say David Pipe, or his representative, will be called to the Stewards’ room, for the third time in three years, and I dare say their conclusion will end with the now infamous ‘in the absence of no other relevant information’ nonsense. But does history not give the BHA license to say ‘hang on a minute, Horse A may not have been laid for suspicious amounts by anyone we can connect to the stable, but there’s something of a pattern emerging and questions should be asked’?

    When will performances such as this occupy Racing 4 Change’s consciousness, rather than the re-scheduling of one of the most endearing and exciting meetings of the flat season?

    #314213
    Avatar photoMatthew01
    Member
    • Total Posts 1083

    Followed the gamble £50 at 7s Stan James, absolutely delighted mate.

    Fantastic ride from Danny Cooke.

    #314214
    Avatar photorory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    Firstly, can we stop laying stewarding decisions at the door of a marketing initiative?

    Secondly, this eloquent argument would be more impressive still if some of the information in it wasn’t simply invented.

    #314215
    Avatar photoBurrough Hill Lad
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    • Total Posts 276

    …. and …. cue avalanche of abuse :roll:

    #314217
    Avatar photoBurrough Hill Lad
    Member
    • Total Posts 276

    Not quite sure which bits of AJ’s argument you think are made up, Rory … I backed the horse when he won the race last year but purely on the basis that I happened to be following the mounts of Danny Cook at the time … saw he was running again this morning and walked into the bookies at 2 o’clock today with the expectation of seeing him around the 14’s or 16’s mark but had no intention of backing him … was not surprised to see him chalked up at 6’s and even less surprised to see him lead all the way and win comfortably.

    AJ is right to intimate that they know full well they have the horse fit enough to win the race so long as they have a bit of luck in running and they also have their reasoning / excuses ready for the eventuality of being called in by the stewards if the horse happens to win … the question is, do we think this is just clever training or are we suggesting they have deliberately engineered his previous runs to achieve a good rating today in order to repeat last year’s win ?

    So what do we think the majority verdict would be if we were discussing a Barney Curley horse here and not David Pipe ?

    #314218
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I will accept that I have mis-used the term ‘Racing 4 Change’ as, having re-visited the BHA’s website, it would appear their objectives are wholly promotional (although it could be argued that recommending changes to an established and historical racing calendar has nothing to do with marketing, but the alteration of what racing has to market).

    But what elements of the argument have been ‘invented’, Rory?

    #314220
    Avatar photoCav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4833

    Raslan is the type of back class horse I favour. Its all there in the form book, no Curley-esque shenanigans. These old fashioned gambles that anyone with a form book could have joined in, in are becoming a rarity in the present era and Pipes are usually short enough early enough when their ready to win.

    Raslans record above a mark of 130+ is 1-30. What are they supposed to do?

    They deserve credit for persevering with the horse imo.

    #314223
    Avatar photorory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    There was no suspicious change in tactics on Raslan. He’s been ridden prominently in all his recent races, although has managed to completely lose his position after making an early mistake on one or two occasions. In fact, he often has to be ridden vigorously even to keep interest before jumping an obstacle.

    This wasn’t a gamble out of the blue – he was heavily backed at Market Rasen last time and set off briefly in front before typically looking mulish and downing tools.

    David Pipe hasn’t simply removed headgear in order to prevent Raslan from running well. He’s tried a fair number of combinations of tongue tie and/or cheekpieces/visor to presumably keep the old monkey guessing. It’s not unusual for trainers of similarly temperamental horses to vary things in order to stop a horse going sour.

    Finally, if David Pipe was indeed somehow engineering Raslan’s performances in a way he was fully in control of, then he must be some kind of evil genius. I suspect that Raslan looks equally sulky at home for much of the time but every now and again he perks up and connections decide that it’s time to have a few bob on. I’ve certainly seen that pattern before.

    #314227
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Did you back Raslan, Cav?

    #314229
    Avatar photoCav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4833

    Didn’t have a bet in the race, AJ. Had Raslan flagged but had him 8/1 -9/1. Price was well shorter than that when I logged in this afternoon.

    Thats the problem these days, the exchanges are usually all over theses horses early and it’s typical of what’s happened to my betting over the last 8 months. Rock solid strike rates, just cant get the prices.

    Its all there in the formbook with Raslan imo.

    #314230
    Avatar photoOneEye
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    • Total Posts 661

    The Pipes are one of the biggest gambling stables in horse racing – always have been and probably always will be.

    I’ll never forget the time when Peter Scudamore openly said in an interview that when he was riding a certain Pipe horse, there was so much stable money on it that if he didn’t win on it, then he wasn’t to return to the stable.

    I don’t have any statistical data to back this up, but I reckon the Pipe stable have had more double figure price winners, followed by the same horse being a short price failure next time out, than any other stable in the game.

    #314232
    Avatar photoCav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4833

    David is a pale shadow of his father when it comes to landing gambles. I’d say he’ll be delighted he got one right today, for a change.

    #314234
    Avatar photoOneEye
    Member
    • Total Posts 661

    Agree with that CR.

    You couldn’t beat a Marin Pipe gamble at Newton Abbot :D

    #314236
    Avatar photophil walker
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1374

    I’m with you here Armchair Jockey, how amazing that Raslan has dropped to his lowest weight for a long time and in his recent races he has come nowhere. A lot of people call it using the handicapping system, in my view its cheating.

    #314237
    Avatar photoBurrough Hill Lad
    Member
    • Total Posts 276

    Phil, I’d prefer to view it as astute race planning and, as has been suggested on here already, dogged perseverance on the part of DP … maybe I’m just being naive … but I wouldn’t ever class it as cheating … they clearly know what mark he is capable of winning off and back their judgement accordingly :roll:

    #314240
    Avatar photoMatthew01
    Member
    • Total Posts 1083

    What about his Martin’s huge gambles at Sandown (Imperial Cup) late February, that yard had it off every year in recent times. Quality.

    Blowing Wind, Olympian etc.

    #314243
    Noble Locks
    Member
    • Total Posts 21

    I’m in complete agreement with Armchair Jockey.

    Being a relative newcomer to horse racing, it astounds me how this sort of thing appears to be accepted within the industry.

    The horse in question recent form figures read as follows:-

    12th of 14 – beaten 39 lengths
    11th of 14 – beaten 34 lenghts
    13th of 14 – beaten 47 lenghts
    14th of 14 – beaten 140(!) lengths
    9th of 13 – beaten 43 lenghts

    Low and behold, on it’s next outing it wins the same race it won last year off the same handicap mark!

    If British horse racing is happy for this blatant manipulation of the system to continue then fine, but don’t expect to encourage any new customers to the sport.

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