- This topic has 105 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 7 months ago by
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- Posts
You’ve shown yourself up to be a right fanny with that post, sorry but you have.
I didn’t equate what you said to racism, I was trying to enlighten you about discriminatory, gratuitous, and ill-founded remarks, there is a slight difference.
Slanging match……..
Oh you’ve lost those marbles,
You said it quote "would not be tolerated if it was directed at black, female, old or even lower class".
How is that not equating what I said to racism etc?
I note you do not answer my question, what gratuitous assumptions?
If you are just looking for an arguement please look elsewhere. If what you said was not so laughable I’d find it offensive, hope people in those groups do not take offense.
There is nothing wrong with what I said and I believe you know it.
Mark
Value Is Everything
- Total Posts 17716
So I question how well the sport is policed, and how the industry as a whole would react to certain situations, and you declare yourself to be qualified to cast aspersions on the validity of my judgements?
At what stage did I intimate that cheating was rife within horseracing, or indeed that there are a disproportionate number of trainers and jockeys ‘breaking the rules left, right and centre’? And, in what universe, are two posts in a seven-page thread considered ‘constant’?
It’s not often I actually get angry when reading contributions on this forum, Ginge, but I would kindly request that you do not offer your ‘feelings’ in future. You are in no better position to question me, or my approach to betting, than anyone else, and to make such c*ck-sure remarks on the basis of little more than ‘feeling’ shows an incomprehensible sense of self-assurance.
I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I tend to think that I deal with any losses fairly well and don’t generally find myself resorting to blaming others. Other than the two examples I mentioned in my previous post, both of which related to the same trainer and were relayed by one of his (former) owners, the only other ride I have mentioned was that of Dean McKeown aboard Stevie Gee. And, as a previous TRF member (Mesh) can attest, I did fairly well when backing him at 33/1 next time out having been less than satisfied with his effort on debut.
So, swings and roundabouts.
A little thought goes a long way, Ginge, and taking your head out of your backside – both in terms of corruption in racing, and the fact that I couldn’t give a rat’s a*sehole about your feelings – doesn’t hurt either.
So I question how well the sport is policed, and how the industry as a whole would react to certain situations, and you declare yourself to be qualified to cast aspersions on the validity of my judgements?
At what stage did I intimate that cheating was rife within horseracing, or indeed that there are a disproportionate number of trainers and jockeys ‘breaking the rules left, right and centre’? And, in what universe, are two posts in a seven-page thread considered ‘constant’?
It’s not often I actually get angry when reading contributions on this forum, Ginge, but I would kindly request that you do not offer your ‘feelings’ in future. You are in no better position to question me, or my approach to betting, than anyone else, and to make such c*ck-sure remarks on the basis of little more than ‘feeling’ shows an incomprehensible sense of self-assurance.
I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I tend to think that I deal with any losses fairly well and don’t generally find myself resorting to blaming others. Other than the two examples I mentioned in my previous post, both of which related to the same trainer and were relayed by one of his (former) owners, the only other ride I have mentioned was that of Dean McKeown aboard Stevie Gee. And, as a previous TRF member (Mesh) can attest, I did fairly well when backing him at 33/1 next time out having been less than satisfied with his effort on debut.
So, swings and roundabouts.
A little thought goes a long way, Ginge, and taking your head out of your backside – both in terms of corruption in racing, and the fact that I couldn’t give a rat’s a*sehole about your feelings – doesn’t hurt either.
Equitrack / LGR,
Everyone should be interested in weeding out corruption within racing and I applaud your interest in doing so. Let me explain how I came to my conclusion.
You said in your post “The BHA need to define the term “corruption” as it currently, quite obviously exists in many forms”.
I did say “on this thread” sorry, I meant on this site. Other threads / posts have led me to believe that you think it is happening as I say “left, right and centre”.
In another thread you say “….given some of the ridiculous explanations the BHA accepts on a day to day basis……” So you believe the explanations jockeys give are ridiculous and the BHA should act against these riders every day?
You call Sir Mark Prescott a cheat, or rather accuse him of “cheating” which is the same thing in my book, before withdrawing it later when others objected.
Richard Hughes “managed to pull a horse to the rail and have his run blocked…” The words “managed to pull” seems to infer he deliberately got the horse blocked in to lose.
In another incident “Richard Hughes and Jamie Spencer as examples just for today, the former clearly did not ride out to the finish….. latter looked to do everything he could to take Forced Upon Us out….” The use of “clearly” seems to suggest it is a fact and not an opinion. “Do everything he could” also infers Spencer was deliberately trying to lose. By your words “examples just for today” this tells me you believe corruption is happening every day and that it is rife in racing.
There is absolutely no evidence corruption is going on on a day to day basis but there must be a reason punters believe this.
I believe some of those punters either consciously or sub-consciously want to believe racing is bent. I am not “cock sure” that you are one of them Equitrack, which is why I said “I may be wrong”. If you are not, may be you would like to tell me why you think this type of thing goes on day in day out.
So you can give your opinion about jockeys and trainers on here, accusing them of all sorts and yet I can not say my opinion of you. that smacks of double standards. At least you are in a position to respond. If you can give a reasonable explanation for the opinions above Equitrack then I will apologise. e.g. why you think it goes on on a day to day basis.
I note I am yet another one to have words flung at me regarding my rear end. Will take some consolation in being in the same company as Jim Bolger etc.
Mark
Value Is Everythingmarble, equitrack, gingertipster, what date suits best xmas re-union.
Chris Bell said 2 years ago, "there’s a crooked race every day"
Which one of these is corruption ? Which one is an every race occurrence ?
An Owner tells his Granny that Firstpastthepost is not fancied today – Granny lays Firstpastthepost for £10 – this does not affect the SP.
An Owner tells a High Roller that Firstpastthepost is not fancied today – High Roller lays Firstpastthepost for £50,000 – the SP drifts like a barge.
A Farrier notices that Firstpastthepost has a sore, stiff and swollen hind fetlock – Farrier lays Firstpastthepost for £1,000 – this does not affect the SP.
A Farrier notices that Firstpastthepost has a sore, stiff and swollen hind fetlock – Farrier tells a High Roller – High Roller lays Firstpastthepost for £35,000 – the SP drifts like a barge.
A Jockey is asked by his Granny to stop Firstpastthepost, cos’ it’s her birthday – Granny lays Firstpastthepost for £100, which is a week’s pension – this does not affect the SP.
A Jockey is asked by a High Roller to stop Firstpastthepost – High Roller lays Firstpastthepost for £25,000 – the SP drifts like a barge.
Does it make a difference if Firstpastthepost then Wins ?
Backing two runners is the relentless pursuit of value. Backing each way is a shortcut to the poor house. Only 7% make a long term profit.
- Total Posts 17716
All that clever abriviation crap is nonsence.
You stop a horse from obtaining its best possible position you face the force of the BHA.
If some bloke is making money out of these actions then he is a seperate case altogether.
Pretty simple if you ask me gents.
Was in France this weekend – there horses were running at Enghien and Auteuil in regular two bit races for 40k sterling. Our´s along with the crooked and dodgy handicapping system are running for 5k
Our Grade 2 was worth 25kish, there amateur riders chase was worth 45k.
One country has corruption which is rife, the other doesn´t.
I got involved in a lengthy debate on Betfair the other day in which several apparently shrewd punters (well I knew that a couple of them were far from idiots) could not understand that there is a clear line between not fancying a horse – for whatever reason – and taking steps to ensure that the horse you do not fancy will lose.
That distinction seems absolutely simple and obvious to me. Yet, if intelligent punters don’t understand it, it may not be so surprising that some less-than-intelligent professionals do not either.
Thank God for the BHA’s inside information courses, I reckon.
- Total Posts 17716
Now I have to agree one one thing that the money in this country is bloody appauling and it must be such a struggle for smaller stables.
Can you please tell me how it would be possible for the prize money to increase?
Forget the economy, the more people we get through the turnstiles the more money racecourse’s can put in but the vicious circle starts, say the familey down the road have saved up for a day at the races they more then likely want to see some good action, well that happens about once a week so what about all the other days of the week just full of retired pentioners who don’t drink and bet about £5. Then you got the likes of Dean Mckeown doing such silly things whilst the BHA is trying to prevent the word about racing being Bent but whilst the exchanges are there and the prize money is at such a low level then this will only continue and will drive more fans away. Save your money son, let’s goto a football match….
marble, equitrack, gingertipster, what date suits best xmas re-union.
Chris Bell said 2 years ago, "there’s a crooked race every day"
Is this your view then Barry?
Will introduce myself one day.We could hire a boxing ring for the re-union, for all those with a greivance!
Mark
Value Is EverythingGT,
a trainer tells the owner that a 50/1 chance will not be winning a 20 runner novice hurdle, if that constitutes crooked, yes there’s a crooked race every day.
- Total Posts 17716
You stop a horse from obtaining its best possible position you face the force of the BHA.
If some bloke is making money out of these actions then he is a seperate case altogether.
Then why have all the BHA enquiries only been instigated by the latter?
I’d say the exact opposite is the case, horse’s aren’t being run on their merits every day of the week, the only ones the BHA pursues are those highlighted by Betfair – because someone is openly making money out of them.- Total Posts 17716
You stop a horse from obtaining its best possible position you face the force of the BHA.
If some bloke is making money out of these actions then he is a seperate case altogether.
Then why have all the BHA enquiries only been instigated by the latter?
I’d say the exact opposite is the case, horse’s aren’t being run on their merits every day of the week, the only ones the BHA pursues are those highlighted by Betfair – because someone is openly making money out of them.So what if someone is making money out of them, for all thats going on they might be just laying on personal opinion and other’s with the " bent " logic in their minds begin to think" oh god, look at this horse drifiting and look at the trainer and jockey" may begin to follow in causing others with the same logic to follow in.
Untill you can prove a bloke is laying form personal opinion to inside job then your going to ultimately fail but if people like Dean Mckeown make things so obvious then it’s going to spark a deeper inquest into things.
- Total Posts 17716
Mr W
I’m working from memory here, but I believe if you examine the transcripts of the investigations of such as Robert Winston and Kieren Fallon, you’ll find that even the BHA agreed there was no question of them ‘stopping’ horses.
Can you name me one instance where “the force of the BHA” was applied with such vigour without “some bloke making money out of it”?- Total Posts 17716
Mr W
I’m working from memory here, but I believe if you examine the transcripts of the investigations of such as Robert Winston and Kieren Fallon, you’ll find that even the BHA agreed there was no question of them ‘stopping’ horses.
Can you name me one instance where “the force of the BHA” was applied with such vigour without “some bloke making money out of it”?Sorry for the late reply I’ve just got out the bath,
Like you my memory isn’t all that good despite my relative young age, in the current era of exhanges your assumption is probally on point but years ago before my time and the exchanges time there has been case’s of BHA stepping in on non-triers.
Mr W
I’m working from memory here, but I believe if you examine the transcripts of the investigations of such as Robert Winston and Kieren Fallon, you’ll find that even the BHA agreed there was no question of them ‘stopping’ horses.
Can you name me one instance where “the force of the BHA” was applied with such vigour without “some bloke making money out of it”?A race that was more than anything about one jockey – Tony Dobbin – who was having his final ride on BALLYVOGE, who was sent off the long odds-on favourite to win a modest race. He duly obliged, by making all, but he looked around most of the way round, and it took all of Dobbin’s strength to get him home.
Lord Samposin ran a cracker in second and, although the winner was idling, he did a stout job of keeping tabs on him and saw his race out well to the finish, despite his rider dropping his reins on the run-in. He should be able to win a race, on the evidence of this display, which caught the eye of the stewards, who apparently felt that his rider did not make sufficient effort in the closing stages. They subsequently found McAllister to be in breach of Rule 157 and referred him to the BHA disciplinary committee.Backing two runners is the relentless pursuit of value. Backing each way is a shortcut to the poor house. Only 7% make a long term profit.
Just to try help people,
racing is as straight as a corkscrew.Everybody in the game knows this; several hangers-on ( eg journalists, wannabee journalists, folk working for the Exchanges or the BHA) probably deny this.
Make up your own minds. There is no proof or evidence. Do you think people are stupid?
All the very best with your punting, but I really wish unlicensed layers of non-triers didn’t prosper like I feel they do.
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