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Aidan
I’ll say it again, GW beat average milers, but well, Araafa is an average European Miler, like Court Masterpiec, like Ad Valorem, like Librettist, like Proclamation, he is not a 128+ horse and never will be and nor will any of the others
If you or anyone  think todays field contained above average Milers, then i fear for your punting
(Edited by empty wallet at 9:25 pm on Sep. 23, 2006)
Please please please please read my posts and find where have I said anything remotely suggesting George Washington is beating exceptional milers. He is beat good decent average milers in a hack canter. My point is you are grossly over rating the current bunch of American horses who would need to produce a performance of 130 calibre to beat an on song George Washinton when in truth they would struggle to hit 125.
Agreed. I don’t think any of the horses you’ve mentioned, Aiden, will be disgraced in the Arc, the Champion and the Breeders Cup. A good crop at the top end.
Aidan
Rail Link, Dylan Thomas and Alexandrova have put up the best 12f times i’ve clocked
<br>These 3, could turn out to be TOP class like G, but to prove it they need to beat HR,Shirocco, DI, etc,etc, all TOP class animals, wouldn’t you agree?
I agree….but what they have done so far is very good. Simply cannot right them off yet simply because they have not had a chance to prove it against their elders. Alexandrova will probably face Alexander Goldrun in the L’Opera.
But the same applies to the American horses you have mentioned. They may be good but it is the European horses that they have to be measured against and in George Washington they will be meeting a horse capable of hitting 130. I am repeating myself but there is not a turf horse in American capable of getting near that figure.
Aidan
<br>What DT has done is very good, and as i stated at the time of his Irish Drby win, the best 12f 3yo performance, what Rail Link and Alexandrova have done is above average, maybe more so the latter imo
<br>Aidan
How do you know there is not a turf horse in America capable of getting near 130, if GW is beaten fair and square by say Gorella in a properly run race by a couple of length will you say, nope, crap form,GW wasn’t himself or will you say yep Gorella 130 hoss?
Anyway were going round in circles and we’ll have to agree to disagree about the US horse, but hopefully we’ll see one of proved right or wrong ;)
These 3yos are very decent – VERY decent. Look at the final order of today’s race. 3yos filled 3 of the 1st 4 places. They beat Librettist, a proven Group 1 horse, and Proclamation, a very decent horse, just not upto Group 1 level (still no excuses? ;) )
Court Masterpiece couldn’t get close to Araafa and GW, and he’s just about the toughest and most reliable horse in training. Also a 2-time Group 1 winner.
(Edited by jackane24 at 10:42 pm on Sep. 23, 2006)
Quote: from EC on 10:08 pm on Sep. 23, 2006[br]I get a speed figure of 125 for GW, EW..which is the best speed figure I’ve seen for a while:cheesy:
Admiral Of The Fleet scored a 111 [no wfa] which puts him on a par with Teofilo..on the clock. Teofilo’s top figure was a few weeks ago though.
Thats a great figure for AOTF..looked impressive as well.
(Edited by EC at 10:09 pm on Sep. 23, 2006)<br>
125…who was the last one you had on that EC??
SHL
trackside
It’s all about opinions as they say, if you think that is so, then fine by me, i think Gorella and Aragorn are slightly better than the horses GW beat, more so the former who i think would give GW a run for his money
<br>You say Gorella would not live with GW, but like i sort of said to Aidan presuming this is unwise
Everyone thought GW was unbeatable in the Irish Guineas, we are dealing with animals not machines, pull a muscle, loose a shoe and the same could happen again or maybe the impossible and Gorella could just kick his arse
<br>I cannot wait for Nov 4th
Gorella is a filly who was finishing 3rd behind Divine Proportions in France last year. George would beat Divine Proportions by a few lengths (i rate Divine P VERY highly).
Gorella is crying out for 1m 2f. As for Aragorn – I didn’t know who he was until I looked him up 2 weeks ago. I was shocked how such narrow margins meant he was such a strong favourite.
I would imagine he will be saying GW has bust the clock on his scale
I think he trod on it
Hes nuts :cheesy:
Shuld be fun reading Maudlin this week….
Don’t know if anyone is interested
Aragorn is rated 122 on the International rankings list this month, 2lb behind GW and ahead of Araafa by the same margin and 3lb ahead of Court Masterpiece
<br>Gorella is missing , but English Channel  is 120 same as Araafa, and Cacique is 119 same as Court Masterpiece
<br>So, it seems the International Handicappers are of a similar mind to me that Aragorn is better than those that GW beat
<br>Will be interesting to see what next months are
(Edited by empty wallet at 1:08 am on Sep. 24, 2006)
Trackside
Using the current World rankings,  GW is 2lb better than Aragorn (probably more now)  that’s about a length, ain’t much though and who’s to say Aragorn can’t just keep pulling out more  and more  in an head to head duel for the line
Some horses don’t want to be passed, Giants Causeway eyeball to eyeball just pulled out more, it took good tactics from the Observatory team to beat him
<br>Who’s to say Gorella can’t sit out the back and come with a sweeping run in the stretch past tiring horses and win by just by a neck without being touched, as she’ has done on her last two starts. How much more has she in the locker, 1 length, 2, 3, 4?
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(Edited by empty wallet at 4:09 am on Sep. 24, 2006)
It will be interesting to see how Timeform rate GW yesterday. My guess is tht they will assume that Arafa also improved a couple of pounds on his previous form and rate the race through Court Masterpiece who has a rating of 128+. This would give them a TF for GW of 135+
The official handicapper doing the same would give GW 126+
A very fine performance by GW but us wrinklies remember that Brigadier Gerard had a TF of 144!
Aragorn is rated 122 on the International rankings list this month, 2lb behind GW and ahead of Araafa by the same margin and 3lb ahead of Court Masterpiece
I am not surprised by Aragorns rating, like I said we see this time and time again (this is not a new thing this year). Over rated American turf whos bubbles are burst Breeders Cup night. For instance in 2005 Leroidesanimaux got a rating of 127 in the big mile race in Canada!!! When it came to Breeders Cup night he was beaten into second with European second raters like Majors Cast, Whipper and co beaten noses and short heads. A 127 horse my arse!
Gorella is missing , but English Channel is 120 same as Araafa, and Cacique is 119 same as Court Masterpiece
Both English Channel and Cacique got their ratings for 10f and 12f. Their 8f ratings are considerably lower. Indeed the highest mile rating Cacique achieved in America was a whopping 114. English Channel got a high of 121 for his 1m4f race….lets see what rating this years Arc winner gets will we?
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