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It really does seem that way doesnt it Donkey? I suppose he just does enough and has barely been stretched (eclipse was nearest to that i suppose). Extraordinary….
It is arguable that his best distance could even be 12f. In many ways, its possible his most impressive performance was winning the guineas over a mile (when to me he looked like a middle distance horse beating a mile field on class)
Nothing else to add to all the superlatives
But never thought one flat horse would stand out for me (unlike Kauto or Dessie over the jumps) simply becauise of the difficulty of comparisons
Until now…
Kinane knew he had that in the bag 1f out, his speed is incredible, BBC went on about the traffic problems but he never had that much of a problem, he had quite enough space to power him through once he made that burst it was all over, like a Pacquiao punch on Hatton.
Youmzain I will never get to the bottom of him, how can a horsse lose to Getaway and Ask get so close to superstars.
Fame And Glory was probably the hard luck story of the race, he was flying level with Youmzain until he met Stacelita’s tiring backside, very bad call from Murtagh who should have went wide and probably cost him 2nd.
Conduit just didn’t have the turn of foot to win this and probably wants rock solid ground to show his true ability. I think he will defend his BC Turf win and bag another G1.
I had to do a bit of research because i forgot the horses name as i haven’t been watching racing all that long compared to some. Anyway on ATR a few days ago they were talking to an ex jocky called Muis Roberts. In the interview they were talking about a horse he rid called Mtoto, and comparing it slightly to STS in terms of races he won etc…
http://i35.tinypic.com/1ze9sia.jpg
festival stakes
prince of wales
coral eclipse
king george
select stakes2nd in the arc
Just thought i’d mention it incase anyone remembered. Were their styles in anyway similar ?
Not really no. Mtoto only came to himself as a 4yo and although he won a couple of Eclipses I reckon he was better over 12f and didn’t really have the gears that STS has.
I get the feeling stilvi is the sort of person who still expects his team to ship four goals despite leading 3-0 with ten minutes to go.
Sea The Stars has run freely, been bumped and hampered to such a degree that he’s lost three lengths on the rail, had to sit and wait for space to come and STILL quickened, under little more than a slightly animated drive from Kinane, to win an Arc easing down.
The efforts of those determined to undermine what the horse has achieved are starting to get a little tiresome.
..but this is much the same as last year’s winner and arguably she beat the same horse a little easier and with every bit as good a turn of foot.
He has a tough constitution and a consistency that’s difficult to match but I feel I’ve seen a few more brilliant Arc winners down the years and it’s this hype that surrounds him, that he’s the best anyone has ever seen, or somesuch, that I find repeatedly tiresome.
On this Arc form alone I don’t see how he can be rated anything higher than low 130’s, which I think is about right in any case.
Zarkava won hands and heels, Sea The Stars won eased down and won more easier imo he had it won quite a way out I thought, but Zarkava had the horrible start yet Sea The Stars actually a got very warm and pulled hard.
Who cares Sea The Stars and Zarkava never ran against each other and are both great horses, Zarkava only rated 129 as she was wrapped in cotton wool therefore effeting her progressing to her true ratingbut then the handicapper said she was capable of much higher than her rating suggested where as Sea The Stars hadn’t missed a G1 race since May has branched far out where as Zarkava never left Paris. Everyone seen what happens when a colt of supern talent pushed Sea The Stars, he simply found more, and even Zarkava would have had the whip out on her at Sandown no doubt about it.
Trainers have their own way about things and in the end are now worth millions. So Oxx and Dupre have been spot on, Dupre had a filly so wrapping her in cotton wool makes more sense.
Sea The Stars just joined an elite group its too sublective to say there haas been better winners, Lammtarra barely won his Arc and hardly won by more than a length but no one could live with him when they pushed him, he kept on finding more as he was just too good yet never gets mentioned with the greats when im my book he is, Sakhee won by 6l and almost won the BC Classic on dirt and had a gruelling campaign yet his name is never mentioned.
Zarkava got a rating of 131?…should have been 137. Still how they gave New Approach 133 is amazing tbh.
Sea The Stars fully deserves a 141+ rating after that today
to maintain top form, from may to october, to be champion an 3 distances, and never to shirk a battle; I loved D Brave, but STS is the best ever
Their was no hiding place out their today, i for one at a tear in my eye when he won, Bob Wharton said of him ( this was after the guineas and i dont think it is an egsact quote , "He is a proper Horse with a proper pedigree".
The Americans mist know Rachel would have been slaughtered had she gone out their in that field, Sea The Stars is the best in world at the moment.
How many of the ratings experts on here actually calculate them themselves or are pulling meaningless figures out of thin air to justify what they want.
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I wouldn’t dream of knocking Sea the Stars after that performance. I believe it was a top notch Arc and I wouldn’t be too quick in knocking Youzmain either. He’s a job horse if ever there was one and obviously has been trained on the racecourse all season with only one thing in mind.
Consider what finished behind them…Cavalryman, Conduit, Dar Re Mi and Fame and Glory every one of them have won at least one good race this season yet none could strike a blow. Nothing I expected to run well really ran a bad race and the form looks rock Solid. I’m pretty sure before this season is through there’s a few form boots yet to come.
So how do you rate a horse that’s done it all?
There is nothing better than being around when it happens. It’s hard to imagine anything beating Sea the Stars and many people especially younger people won’t ever be told anything different. The horse is now a Hero to millions and who’s to say he’s not the best of all time?
The thing is that many don’t realise is this has all happened before. If you weren’t around to see the way Sea Bird II moved,one can only try and explain to you what he was like. He did what Sea the Stars did but there was no raising whips or no apparent sudden moves he just glided past everything and won by 6 lengths. The race itself was probably an even higher standard than todays. Meadow Court like Fame and Glory won the Irish Derby but also won the King George, The French and Russian Derby winners ran in the race as did the Preakness winner and The winner of that years Washington International. It was one of the best International fields ever assembled and this horse utterly destriyed the lot of them. That’s the main reason he is rated the best of all time.
Every single word of praise we heard today on TV and Radio was said about Sea Bird II and by many when they watched the grace of Nijinsky, the class of Mill Reef, and the electrifying speed of Dancing Brave. They were all like Sea the Stars great horses with a huge following.
However no horse has ever been as big a threat to Sea Bird II’s title as Sea the Stars is. That in itself is some compliment.
The arguments will no doubt have started already.
I cant even begin to imagine what would have happened had Dancing Brave been in that race today and it was him finishing on the outer and not Youzmain, Nor can I imagine what would have happened if it had been Mill Reef who stole 5 lengths from Sea the Stars and not Staclita.
Sea the Stars reminds me in may ways of Sea Bird II in the sense he had an extremely high cruising speed and could be put anywhere in the race that his jockey wanted to put him. The only difference between them is Sea Bird didn’t have to be bustled up in the slightest to pass horse he just eased past them and was the most perfect horse I ever saw. It was like the ony reason you knew he had accelerated was that you could see him pass other horses because if they hadn’t been there you would have sworn the horse was having a leisurely canter up the gallops.
However if the decision to is made by Timeform to put both on the same rating the Sea the Stars deserves it. Sea Bird II like Sea the Stars lost only once (to his stable comapnion) but although he won all 5 races as a 3 year old his claim to fame was really only achieved in 2 The Epsom Derby and the Arc. Sea the Stars although he may not have beaten Sea Bird II in the Arc or the Derby has achieved much more overall than Sea Bird II ever did and he might not be finsihed yet.
Overall I see him as the best ever if not the best I’ve seen.
A privilege to see such a great racehorse. Without a doubt one of the all time greats and the best flat horse I have seen in my 37 years.
He has nothing left to prove so hope they give the BC a miss.
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Some people don’t like sea the stars because they’ve backed against him, and it’s cost them, they’re not true racing fans.
Some people don’t rate him as high as past horses because it’s common for us to remember the past better than it was and the present worse than it is.
It could also be true that he’s being spoken of highly to get people interested in racing, gain some attention so to speak.
I do think he deserves to be mentioned with the best and if timeform give him the highest rating I don’t think there can be much argument from anyone.
Off topic, when mastercraftsmen was rated top 2 year old at 122 a few people in racing said that was a bit low and the classic generation maybe a bit weak this year! Well they got that wrong.
Back in the days of the other legends mentoned, did they have trainers throwing in pace setter like O’Brien does ?
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I noticed a few people bashing Stilvi without any real basis to do so. So I called my mate in the Uk who’s right into comparing times when it comes to these things to get his opinion.
He hasn’t had much time to study the race but told me this.
"Both races started in earnest about the 300yds mark. Both horses covered the last 300 yds in almost identical times approx 17.35 seconds but Zarkava did it hands and heels and on much slower ground"
I tried hand timing it myself and got pretty much the same result but I got Sea the Stars was like .0 something faster.
I suppose on that basis and if the time is accuarate you would have to say it would have been very very close and down to which of the two would have stuck his/her neck out furthest.
It just goes to show how little there is between horses with the word Great next to their names.
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