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Thanks for the replay Steve.
She’s so straight forward and relaxed that she must have a chance in staying the extra distance.
At 14’s was definitely worth the risk any horse beating Qemah is not bad one…..
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Someone needs to tell bookmakers to remove Foundation from their lists for the Arc De Triomphe, it’s taking the pi55 having him in the betting.
Also, Sporting Bet need to be informed that 14/1 for Wings Of Desire has about as much in common with reality as Doctor Who. Others go 50/1. Get a grip FFS, is there no pride with these people?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Just had a look at the Arc market.
Given the movement: has someone tipped up Makahiki and at the same time has there been a comment to suggest Order Of St George isn’t going to run?
Would the Ascot stayers race not suit Order of St George much better?
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Would the Ascot stayers race not suit Order of St George much better?
If by ‘suit’ you mean would he have a much better chance of winning then obviously the answer is yes. In fact he would more than likely win with some ease but what would that prove? He is already going to be Champion Stayer. What has yet to be confirmed is whether he has the class to cope with a drop back in distance. It might not work but seriously what has he got to lose? It would seem a little bit ridiculous not to explore the limits of his ability before he is retired. I am not sure if they are thinking about next year but it is not as if he will be facing a 1/2 certainty this year.
Just had a look at the Arc market.
Given the movement: has someone tipped up Makahiki and at the same time has there been a comment to suggest Order Of St George isn’t going to run?
For some reason Order Of St George has started to shorten again.
He’s got next to no chance of winning the Arc imo, If they run him he will need a very strong test of stamina, may have to make his own running which will set the race up for Harzand and Postponed and jeopardise the chance of Minding who has speed.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Why would he have next to no chance? How do you know for sure he wouldn’t have the speed to be competitive? In staying terms he is clearly not a slow plodder. The only certainty is he hasn’t got any chance if he doesn’t run. Minding might not run and if she does she still has plenty to prove at the trip. I suggested much earlier that Order Of St George might benefit from a pacemaker. I wouldn’t have thought it would be that difficult to find one.
Order Of St George is dominating a desperately weak staying division. These are group 3 horses at best that he is beating.
Postponed has the speed to win at 10F and stamina for a mile and a half. That’s a potent combination. Others in the field have more latent speed than the Gold Cup winner and a slog is the only way you could see this blunting the faster horses.
Leading Light went into the Arc as a Leger winner that some felt had a chance of lifting the race but he never landed a blow.
I wouldn’t take Order Of St George at 50/1 were it offered, but each to their own.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Order Of St George is dominating a desperately weak staying division. These are group 3 horses at best that he is beating.
Postponed has the speed to win at 10F and stamina for a mile and a half. That’s a potent combination. Others in the field have more latent speed than the Gold Cup winner and a slog is the only way you could see this blunting the faster horses.
Leading Light went into the Arc as a Leger winner that some felt had a chance of lifting the race but he never landed a blow.
I wouldn’t take Order Of St George at 50/1 were it offered, but each to their own.
I am well aware that you don’t rate the horse. Anyone can see that from your previous posts.
If Order Of St George had been scrambling home from Group 3 or lesser rivals nobody would be even thinking about the Arc. As it is he is a 16/1 (generally 12/1) shot and even that price factors in that he might not run.
You can only guess how much relative speed he will show if dropped in trip. He isn’t winning these staying races by grinding the opposition into the ground.
The comparison with Leading Light is a poor one. Order Of St George is already rated several pounds his superior. Leading Light went off 10/1 for the Arc but was racing on a surface much softer than his ideal and was never put in the race with any chance. He returned the following year to scrape home in the Ascot Gold Cup and was subsequently trounced in the Irish St Leger. Those performances don’t really bear comparison to Order Of St George.
Postponed has built up a string of wins but I still believe he will need something better to win an Arc. He had the run of things at York and given that the likes of Highland Reel and Sir Isaac Newton were not exactly miles behind I can’t imagine that O’Brien will be exactly quaking at the thought of taking him on again.
Just for a complete record Pricewise has also tipped Order Of St George.
You keeping making a case for Order Of St George and I’ll keep advising that I think he’s a mugs bet. That’s the way it works.
If he wins, I’ll tip my hat and eat the humble pie.
Order Of St George is beating donkey’s. The Gold Cup was rubbish and the collateral form shows it clearly.
It’s one thing looking fast against horses who should be in bumper races. What you have to envision is how Postponed would look coming clear of these plodders.
If Postponed needs something better to win an Arc then Order Of St George needs an effin’ miracle.
I think 16/1 is very poor value indeed.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Minding won the Oaks over the distance Stilvi and is only 3 years old
I’m just a bit concerned that at 4 years old now Order of St George has not run in a proper group one at 12f. Perhaps he’s a late developer and is coming into fruition now. Why didn’t he run in the King George?Blackbeard to conquer the World
Geez, I don’t fancy Order Of St George, grow up about that fact Stilvi, you’re like a Primary school kid.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
That top-class stayer Westerner finished second to Hurricane Run in the 2005 Arc and, going back further, the mighty Ardross just failed to reel in Akiyda in 1982. Both of those stayers were far better horses than Order Of St George and, even allowing for this year’s renewal being weaker than either of those two Arcs, there’s little chance of the current Gold Cup holder emulating his predecessors, let alone going one better.
Thanks to Stilvi for putting me on to Order Of St George. I’ve looked through the form and 16/1 or 14’s looks to under-estimate his chance.
Some may be against him for being an Ascot Gold Cup winner, but not many Gold Cup winners have gone for the race, of those that do they’ve got a good record of going close. Order Of St George shows more speed than your average Gold Cup winner.
Some might be against him on the evidence of not beating top class animals. But he didn’t just beat them, he won the GC by 3 lengths having had to wait for gaps and not all out so deserves to be rated as winning by further. Every reason to believe Mizzou improved, having at last had a complete test of stamina. Sheikhzayadroad 3rd was beaten 5 1/4 lengths, only beaten 1 1/2 by Big Orange in the Goodwood Cup next time. 5.25 – 1.5 = 3.75. Had Order Of St George also been an easy 3 3/4 lengths winner of Goodwood and the Princess Of Wales Group 2 at Newmarket. Comes out a 6 1/4 lengths better horse than The Grey Gatsby on a form line through Big Orange and Sheikhzayadroad. 6 3/4 better than Newmarket 3rd Exosphere. Latter only beaten 4 1/2 by Postponed in the International. Now, I don’t believe some of those form lines, for one thing need to take account of a length over 2m4f being worth less in pounds than 1m4f or 1m2f… and some would’ve improved in between races. But at least it shows the form is working out better than some (who only look at winners when it comes to form) believe. As well as the above, the horses Sheikzayadroad beat in to 3rd at Goodwood included 4th Wicklowe Brave and 6th Quest For More. Former should’ve beaten the latter in Lonsdale Cup if it wasn’t for temperament/pace in the race; the two separated by Goodwood second Pallasator. Order Of St George is considerably better than the rest of the stayers. Won prep race for the Irish St Leger (Group 3) giving away a load of weight with ease. That his 6th win in a row! Knows how to win and could well pull out more if needed.
Of his other races:
Had been beaten a short head by subsequent English St Leger second Bondi Beach in the Curragh Cup, but that was his first run of that season – missed the Derbys so we don’t exactly know what he can do at 1m4f. Improved to win his classic; last year’s Irish St Leger with a performance a whole lot better than Doncaster’s (Bondi Beach/Simple Verse) version. Won By 11 lengths from Agent Murphy.All in all, I believe Order Of St George deserves to be a lot closer to Postponed in the market.
Value Is Everything
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