Home › Forums › Big Races – Discussion › Arc 2008
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harshthakor.
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- October 6, 2008 at 05:28 #183698
Aga Khan has justed stated on Equidia that we won’t see her again this year. Has to be huge odds on that she wont run again at all.
Very disappointing, although not unexpected.
She hasn’t had a hard season. Most, if not all her wins have been quite effortless this season.
If she never sees another racecourse then it’s hard to compare her with the likes of the highly decorated Ouija Board.
Superior talent? Yes, but legacy is based on achievement.
Ouija Board was a dual Classic winner and a two-time Breeders Cup champion. She also boasted victories over the likes of Electrocutionist and Manduro at Royal Ascot and claimed the Hong Kong Vase on her travels.
Her globetrotting exploits also seen her finish an unlucky third in the Arc, runner-up to the mighty Dylan Thomas in the Irish Champion and a gallant third to Japanese superstar Deep Impact in the Japan Cup.
No doubt she is an incredibly talented filly – like I said, probably the best I’ve seen, but a legacy is built over time and she should be given the opportunity to build on this scintillating performance at Santa Anita and next season.
Look at the American trained superstar filly, Zenyatta. She’s unbeaten in eight starts and will be aimed at the Ladies Classic (Distaff) at Santa Anita. There’s no doubt she’ll stay in-training next year and the long term aim will probably be the Classic next season if she continues to show the same level of form.
She’ll be given the opportunity to become a legend.
If Zarkava isn’t given that opportunity, then the Aga Khan would be wasting the talent of a lifetime.
She could achieve even greater things.
Superb post.
October 6, 2008 at 13:24 #183713"Open to the idea" – Forget that its a certainty.
But sure you think he ran to his best yesterday so of course you would think that.
Dylan Thomas got a rating of 126/127 for beating Youmzain a neck last year. Has Youmzain improved on that run…on running with SOF he has run to virtually the pound of last years form.
October 6, 2008 at 13:35 #183715A good win from Zarkava, would she have won by more if she hadnt got so crowded coming down the home straight, who knows.
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened, as i think Youmzain might have been even closer if he didnt have to lose momentum if Richard Hills had given him a clearer path through, as he was picking up again after being switched.
A very gusty horse, who just keeps going.
October 6, 2008 at 13:49 #183717Even with me as a doubter, Zarkava received a round of applause in my living room yesterday. She now fully deserves mentioning in the same breath as the best fillies ever seen on a racecourse. However, I was disappointed slightly at the reaction of some members of the media. I heard more than one completely sincere comparison to Dancing Brave, which is just not on really. Youmzain has run right up to his best form, so Zarkava’s performance yesterday is probably a pound either side of (or level with, of course) Curlin’s Dubai World Cup win in terms of the best performance this year.
October 6, 2008 at 14:14 #183723Even with me as a doubter, Zarkava received a round of applause in my living room yesterday. She now fully deserves mentioning in the same breath as the best fillies ever seen on a racecourse. However, I was disappointed slightly at the reaction of some members of the media. I heard more than one completely sincere comparison to Dancing Brave, which is just not on really. Youmzain has run right up to his best form, so Zarkava’s performance yesterday is probably a pound either side of (or level with, of course) Curlin’s Dubai World Cup win in terms of the best performance this year.
Youmzain is officially rated 125 and RPR 127.
October 6, 2008 at 14:56 #183731I think he’s a bit better than that. Timeform 130 (before yesterday, presumably), which is probably a wee shade on the high side, but closer IMO.
October 6, 2008 at 15:00 #183733Dancing Brave won his Arc on better ground conditions than Zarkava did. He also had a near perfect, unimpeded run to the line.
Zarkava did not. Was her victory as impressive as Dancing Brave’s ? In my opnion, most certainly.
Interesting to note Soumillon say after the race that he thought Dalakhani was probably the only other Arc winner in recent history who might have betean the filly.
He rode both – but I disagree.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
October 6, 2008 at 15:07 #183737Do you think what Zarkava did yesterday was nigh on a stone better than Dylan Thomas last year, Himself? Note that even Dalakhani was probably half a stone below Dancing Brave by all accounts.
October 6, 2008 at 15:12 #183739Montjeu and Peintre Celebre were better than Dalakhani and they would have been equally impressive.
The RPR have given her a rating of 127…Montjeu and Peintre Celebre were in the mid 130s.
She is a great filly, absolutely no doubt, but with the fillys allowance a length defeat of Youmzain is not in mentioned colts league.
October 6, 2008 at 15:49 #183748Btw: It’s Gino was estimates the only German horse in the Arc, that did not like soft to heavy going.

And P. Vocvenko intends to object to the foto for 3rd place – he sees his horse 4 inches in front of SoF.
October 6, 2008 at 15:52 #183750I think he’s a bit better than that. Timeform 130 (before yesterday, presumably), which is probably a wee shade on the high side, but closer IMO.
I think 127-128 with Soldier Of Fortune 125-126 being pretty fair.
October 6, 2008 at 15:55 #183751Do you think what Zarkava did yesterday was nigh on a stone better than Dylan Thomas last year, Himself? Note that even Dalakhani was probably half a stone below Dancing Brave by all accounts.
I think, in terms of raw ability, that Zarkava is superior to both Dylan Thomas and Dalakhani. Whether she is a stone better than Dylan Thomas is another matter.
I’d certainly rate her very close to Dancing Brave. Her time was just over a second slower than he recorded in ’86 – bearing in mind that the race was run on slower ground in 2008.
Dalakhani won his Arc with authority and was a voted European horse of the year, but for me, didn’t possess the electric turn of foot displayed by Zarkava or Dancing Brave. Official ratings will always remain a bone of contention among racing enthusiasts.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
October 6, 2008 at 16:15 #183753I wouldn’t argue with much of that, although I can’t agree with the middle paragraph at all, and would point out that using times in your argument is a dangerous game unless you’re very methodical about it- for example, the clock would disagree quite strongly with the official ground yesterday, especially on the sprint course.
October 6, 2008 at 16:17 #183754Aidan – Helissio was rated 134 – would you have backed him to beat Zarkava giving her 12lb …
I suspect Youmzain has improved markedly this year and was value for 2lb or so higher yesterday had he not been given such a poor ride , the other thing is that she won well within herself . I suspect there was plenty more in the tank – moreover she lost three lengths at the start
They can give good reasons for rating her 127 – is that a true reflection of her ability – I doubt it .
October 6, 2008 at 16:25 #183755Anything Zarkava is rated surely must have a big plus adjacent, as unlike all the others referenced above she is yet to find one too good on the day over any conditions / trip.
October 6, 2008 at 16:30 #183758Hellisio was a fabulous three year old….he absolutely slaughtered Pilsudski that year and that horse went on to beat Singspiel in Grade 1 a few weeks later….
I have no problem with Hellissio’s rating….comparisons with Dancing Brave are laughable…she is not even rated Bosra Sham’s superior let alone the great colts!
I love Zarkava, I doubted her before the Arc and she proved me wrong…but you can only be rated on what you actually achieve (not what you could) and a length defeat of an impeded Youmzain cannot be rated 130 plus.
October 6, 2008 at 16:43 #183759Ah but you haven’t answered my question ?

On ground similarly described as good to soft Zarkava was over a second faster than Helissio – despite meeting trouble in running and jinking out of the stalls and it was a two length defeat
Moreover, I think Pilsudski was never at his best around Longchamp I mean he only beat Oscar Schindler a neck that day – and a few weeks later Singspiel beat Helissio in Japan – admittedly on a road.
I think some serious overrating went on in the late 90s
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