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I’m laughing my head off at the weakeness of the replies you 2 bozos come up with. No analyzing the race just things like you’re not a jockey.
FFs try a bit harder guys your boring the tits off me
Stoute: "The scrimmage cost us, Alessandro Volta pushed on to us and that didn’t help he then took us on and on and on and on across the track that certainly didn’t help either."
Berry: " No doubt it changed the race, he got me to the front, he would have been involved in the finish."
"Moore returned on Tartan Bearer with a face like thunder."
There is also a quote from Moore talking about how the magic button wasn’t there with Tartan Bearer after he got barged and he said he couldn’t have told if he would have won or not.
My view on the race is Tartan Bearer was going to take the lead and was in the process of doing so, his previous races suggest he idles in front, if you look at his 3 races prior that year he stuggled to pull away from a poor maiden at Leicester, surged to the front at The Dante, yet stopped when he got there, when Frozen Fire tried to pass him with his run Tartan Bearer just pulled out more, in The Derby he was looking to never get away from Casual Conquest until New Approach sprouted wings, when he got in his eyeline he catapulted towards New Approach and pulled easily away from Casual Conquest.
So from his previous races you can make a case especially if you seen The Dante if Tartan Bearer hadn’t have been interfered with that badly if Frozen Fire had managed to get there with no interference, Tartan Bearer like in The Dante may have been hard to pass, when the interference happens Tartan Bearer clearly moves his head and feet diagonally, so he ends up having no straight momentum. I doubt also Tartan Bearer was flat out at the time of interfernce, I don’t know how Frozen Fire was riding cause he isn’t in the picture but Tartan Bearer only gets ridden along and whipped for the first time about 1l (Curtain Call and Casual Conquest were being asked more serious questions by their jockey’s ) behind Alessandro Volta after that he joined him quickly and the interfernce happened, the whip was ony out again after Moore finally got him straightend out and it was too late cause Frozen Fire was already there so for me clearly the incident seriously affected his chances, think the Racing Post review were right saying it was a shame Tartan Bearer was denied the chance to show how far he had come from Epsom and as we know he suffered injuries and later infections from the injuries he had sustained from The Curragh and ended up losing his tail which is why he had only half his tail at Sandown if you notice.
I dont really hold it against people who say Frozen Fire would have won anyway, it could be the case, he did fly home of course but that said, he was pretty fortunate to have all that carnage happen upfront, and for me it was probably more disappointing not to see Casual Conquest not winning the race.
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If you look on u-tube Irish Deby 2008 Red, Frozen Fire is never out of the picture.
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If Twice Over is fully tuned up, and Tartan Bearer not, I wonder if he might be worth an e.w.
He wasn’t just beaten half a length by the Bolger hotpot, as TB was, but he was a still a fair sort earlier in the year – and maybe has improved more than the others..
I can’t see Twice Over winning but he could run into a place if we get 8 runners. We most likely will but a lot of those active on Betfair are running elsewhere
He was a typical false favourite for the Guineas after he beat Raven’s Pass in the Craven. As things turned out it’s pretty obvious Raven’s Pass was a long way of his best at that time and the form wasn’t as good as it looked.
He’s one of these horses who falls just short of top class but they just keep running him against some of the best around. No doubt one day he will get his head in front.
I suppose much depends on the ground as Cecil has experessed concerns about fast ground for him in the past.
Make no mistake this is the big test for Tartan Bearer will be 100% for this. SMS wants to win the Eclipse and if Tartan Bearer wins really well here he coud go there next and Conduit would then go to France.
I seem to remember TB’s participation as continuing a Stoute pattern. Though he’s already proved himself to be top class or pretty close to it. He does tend to bring along a lot of his best horses slowly doesn’t he?
There’s one family of slow-developers, in particular, he’s trained, though I can’t remember the dams concerned off the top of my head. "o"s and "a"s in the names I seem to remember!!!
I seem to remember TB’s participation as continuing a Stoute pattern. Though he’s already proved himself to be top class or pretty close to it.
He does tend to bring along a lot of his best horses slowly doesn’t he?There’s one family of slow-developers, in particular, he’s trained, though I can’t remember the dams concerned off the top of my head. "o"s and "a"s in the names I seem to remember!!!
I couldn’t find the post just now, but someone extolled Vision d’Etat’s form, and I have to agree. Whe you look at the horses he beat in the Arc: the few immediately behind him. Youmzain’s unreliable in between the big ones, but his form in the last two Arcs is surely terrific. Not in the Coronation Stakes. But I still prefer Tartan Bearer and Twice Over.
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I seem to remember TB’s participation as continuing a Stoute pattern. Though he’s already proved himself to be top class or pretty close to it. He does tend to bring along a lot of his best horses slowly doesn’t he?
There’s one family of slow-developers, in particular, he’s trained, though I can’t remember the dams concerned off the top of my head. "o"s and "a"s in the names I seem to remember!!!
Can’t help you there but Stoute does tend to give some horse plenty time but the reason we never saw much of Tartan Bearer last year was he was injured in the Irish Derby.
He’s hard horse to assess really. Frozen Fire has been disappointing and the Derby form didn’t exactlly set the world on fire. His victory over Pipedreamer only tells us he is fit and well as the third let that form down too.
Having backed him at almost 3 times his current odds I should be beaming but the horse doesn’t fill me with confidence so I had a sneaky saver on the frenchy. I intended to back Pipedreamer ew when the betting came out but for some reason he doesn’t run and Twice Over looks a stonking ew bet now.
Never On Sunday won easily last time in a hot race. He has a spectacular strike rate. His trainer describes him as a "Champion".
I love horses like this who bizarrely remain ‘unfashionable’ for reasons unknown. I take him to win at an outstanding price next week.
Twice Over I can’t really see reversing Dante form he would need a big step up I would feel, but Tote Place maybe a good option given the price.
I thought removing the jockey even if it was harsh was a senisble thing to do on Vision D’Etat, I would have backed Tartan Bearer big if he kept the ride as I think you need a expereinced jock round Ascot, like in the QEII last year, and Oliver Pesiler will give him the best possible chance of taking this.
Never On Sunday and Vision D’Etat conqueror Trincot are interesting runners, but Trincot however flopped in his last outing failing to beat a weakish field in a G1 in Italy.
Never On Sunday you could maybe forgive his lacklustre effort when losing to Trincot, but he scored well against some smart types in Goldikova, Curtain Call and Tazeez who takes his place here. If it comes up soft next week he’d be a major player.
Never On Sunday has raced five times on good ground and won three of them, including a listed race and a Group 3.
The horse is hardly dependant on soft ground, and I’d be interested if any clock-watchers could advise me if the ground in NOS’s last win was genuinely soft?
Only slow by 4 seconds but I don’t know how strong the race is going on form.
Goldikova lost on soft in lower company than this, Curtain Call needs further than 1m1f, 2nd and 3rd in the race haven’t done much of note in their careers, and Tazeez isn’t probably up to Group 1 standard. There was a 150/1 pig in there that ran closer to the winner than Goldikova.
That said the trainer is in **** hot form, so he would probably improve even further, although I think Tartan Bearer will improve big on his last apperance.
Was disappointed to see Tartan Bearer priced so short who has only ever contested two G1’s so far, ableit placed in both and we have three horses with 4 G1 wins among them.
Lets keep it between me and you – everyone else can compain about an imaginary soft ground dependancy, imaginary dodgy french form, and back the Stoute jolly.
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Never On Sunday has raced five times on good ground and won three of them, including a listed race and a Group 3.
The horse is hardly dependant on soft ground, and I’d be interested if any clock-watchers could advise me if the ground in NOS’s last win was genuinely soft?
Probably, PC.
The RP has the time-based ground as ‘soft’ on that day, and the times would support g/s, at least.Lets keep it between me and you – everyone else can compain about an imaginary soft ground dependancy, imaginary dodgy french form, and back the Stoute jolly.
Don’t forget that the fact he has been beaten by two horses in the field already.
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