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Pocket talk

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  • This topic has 33 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by Anonymous.
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  • #19653
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    I had a conversation with a pal last week. He told me about an afternoon recently spent at a northern track where a trainer, not of the front rank but well known, attempted to make his horse lose by feeding it a bale of hay just before the race. Told the jockey connections didn’t want to win the race. Horse won anyway, jockey couldn’t stop it without making it obvious. Ha ha.

    But you’re mugs if you don’t think this is common practice. Therefore, pocket talk on lower grade racing is often entirely justifiable. Get it through your heads: it isn’t grown up to be naive about why horses sometimes run shockers and lose races.

    #371353
    robnorthrobnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4568

    Name the trainer!

    Or perhaps name your pal!

    #371355
    RedRum77RedRum77
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1549

    This topic typifies the kind post on here lately. No wonder most of the old lot left and why I seriously considered it. As far as I’m concerned it’s all

    swings and roundabouts

    to me. By the way no one complains when they winning, do they. However what really amazes me is that if I thought racing was half as crooked as you make it, then I wouldn’t bet, simple as that.

    #371366
    ricky lakericky lake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2358

    This post typifies the cornflake poster mentality that is so common now , where oh where are all the decent posters gone ….and can you blame them

    What a load of rubbish sir

    Ricky

    #371382
    thehorsesmouththehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5480

    "Plenipotentiary" wrote: I had a conversation with a pal last week. He told me about an afternoon recently spent at a northern track where a trainer, not of the front rank but well known, attempted to make his horse lose by feeding it a bale of hay just before the race.

    :lol: Have you any idea how long it would take a horse to eat a bale of hay?! Thanks for the laugh though! :mrgreen:

    #371396
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Why should I name the trainer? They always deny it.

    The horse ate a bale of hay. He might not have done it in a few minutes but rest assured he did it.

    Why do you all need to believe I am lying? I am not.

    I don’t think there was anything dodgy about labarinto. I just wanted to address the absurd attitude on here about pocket talk. I am not one of those wankers who thinks he deserves to win; my attitude where gambling on horses is concerned amounts to this: once you’ve put that money in the bookie’s hand you have lost it: if any comes back it’s gravy.

    The corollary to that is I reserve the right to speculate and damn well say I what I like about a ride. Mainly I don’t say much because I don’t know that much about the art of the jockey (R Hughes’ excellent column is educating me) but there is enough anecdotal evidence and often enough visually to know there are areas of this game which are frankly shady. I don’t understand why everyone is so offended by low grade racing being labelled this way. Stop every third person in the bar at Brighton races and they’ll have a story about a horse that was pulled or was doped up with painkillers to win.

    Yes it is a sport and an artful one. But whether you like it or not when a horse is pulled everyone who backed it has been robbed of their money, not mention their winnings, by the trainer, connections and jockey. It may be a grey legal area but it is entirely straighforward as a moral issue. There is no way round it. It doesn’t affect you because you likely back only top class racing, which is a wise policy for a student of the Turf. Nevertheless, the low grade stuff is the tax that finances the bigger stuff, so it is in its way important.

    #371401
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    Why should I name the trainer? They always deny it.

    The horse ate a bale of hay. He might not have done it in a few minutes but rest assured he did it.

    Why do you all need to believe I am lying? I am not.

    I don’t think there was anything dodgy about labarinto. I just wanted to address the absurd attitude on here about pocket talk. I am not one of those wankers who thinks he deserves to win; my attitude where gambling on horses is concerned amounts to this: once you’ve put that money in the bookie’s hand you have lost it: if any comes back it’s gravy.

    The corollary to that is I reserve the right to speculate and damn well say I what I like about a ride. Mainly I don’t say much because I don’t know that much about the art of the jockey (R Hughes’ excellent column is educating me) but there is enough anecdotal evidence and often enough visually to know there are areas of this game which are frankly shady. I don’t understand why everyone is so offended by low grade racing being labelled this way. Stop every third person in the bar at Brighton races and they’ll have a story about a horse that was pulled or was doped up with painkillers to win.

    Yes it is a sport and an artful one. But whether you like it or not when a horse is pulled everyone who backed it has been robbed of their money, not mention their winnings, by the trainer, connections and jockey. It may be a grey legal area but it is entirely straighforward as a moral issue. There is no way round it. It doesn’t affect you because you likely back only top class racing, which is a wise policy for a student of the Turf. Nevertheless, the low grade stuff is the tax that finances the bigger stuff, so it is in its way important.

    Pleniploppys,
    Backing a horse does NOT give you the right to say what you like about a ride. If what you say is a downright misrepresentation of the truth.

    If I employed a plumber and something went wrong. If I said to everyone in my neighbourhood "the plumber deliberately made a poor job, bloody cowboy". And yet the pipes supplied by another firm was where the fault lied. That would be very unfair on the plumber, to say the laest. He could even take legal action.

    Of course if you stop every third person in the bar at Brighton and he/she will more than likely be a mug punter, all too willing to believe the story of stopping. Because if it was endemic the punter would have an excuse. Not his own fault for consistently losing. Besides – If I told a story that I’d "heard from a trainer who’d told me this one won’t win, punters think "thanks for telling me mate". If I said "I’ve studied the race for an hour and found this one is a very poor value bet", punters think "you sad git".

    I’ve even got a couple of stories to tell myself.
    On the 11th October 1990 at Wincanton I saw a two horse race. One a 1/14 shot, the other 10/1. The 1/14 chance made an error at the first and then the jockey appeared not to make any effort to stay on when jumping left at the second, unseating. Resulting in the 10/1 shot coming home in his own time. Convinced I’d seen a fixed race, I told everyone who’d listen.
    Anyway, when I got home I found out that Peter Hobbs (the jockey) had broken his neck in the preceding race without realising the extent of damage until landing over the first fence on Picador I and in agonising pain.
    I was so wrong!

    Hadn’t better say too much about the other one, just two words – Ice Saint.

    value is everything
    #371403
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    Why should I name the trainer? They always deny it.

    The horse ate a bale of hay. He might not have done it in a few minutes but rest assured he did it.

    Why do you all need to believe I am lying? I am not.

    I do believe your "pal" told you this.
    I wonder where the pal got his story?
    I wonder if the news was second, third or forty-fifth hand.
    Ever played chinese whispers?
    By the time your mate got hold of the story it had probably been changed out of all recognition from…..

    Trainer to owner "Might run ok today, but don’t expect him to win".
    Owner to freind "Don’t back him today, we’re not expecting a win".
    Freind to Freind "Lay him, not expected to win".
    Freind of freind to freind "Lay him, connections don’t want him to win".
    Freind of freind of freind to pal "Lay him, connections are going to stop the horse today".
    Pal to you "They’ve given him a bale of hay just before the race to stop him".
    Oops, even that doesn’t stop the horse.

    Got the idea?

    value is everything
    #371404
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    Why should I name the trainer? They always deny it.

    The horse ate a bale of hay. He might not have done it in a few minutes but rest assured he did it.

    Why do you all need to believe I am lying? I am not.

    If you really thought this were true Plenipotentiary, then of course you should’ve named him. Not to the forum but to the authorities.

    You’ve moaned enough times about skulduggery in the past. This time you had it from what you believed to be a reputable sourse. You don’t know for definate if this "pal" was in a ring, organising these things, or he/she might be able to give the authorities further information. I only say "might", because it is possible and not probable.

    One thing for sure, if you did withold what could be vital info that would lessen the chance of skulduggery, then you can not moan about it when it does happen.

    value is everything
    #371418
    DroneDrone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5109

    Your ‘pal’ has made a grave accusation Plenipotentiary, therefore I would not expect you to name names on a public message board as it could well result in a writ of libel being issued on you and hence a costly court case, for which you and your ‘pal’ may or may not be found guilty

    However such is the seriousness of the alleged misdemeanour I would expect you – as a racing fan who has the best interest of the sport at heart – to report the incident to the BHA for further investigation. If their enquiries do no more than put the wind up the trainer some good will be served

    As a law-abiding and public-spirited individual you will be doing this I trust?

    If not, you and your ‘pal’ could in effect be viewed as accessories-after-the-fact by withholding evidence of a crime

    So, put up or shut up

    :roll:

    #371425
    Silvoir
    Participant
    • Total Posts 270

    Your ‘pal’ has made a grave accusation Plenipotentiary, therefore I would not expect you to name names on a public message board as it could well result in a writ of libel being issued on you and hence a costly court case, for which you and your ‘pal’ may or may not be found guilty

    However such is the seriousness of the alleged misdemeanour I would expect you – as a racing fan who has the best interest of the sport at heart – to report the incident to the BHA for further investigation. If their enquiries do no more than put the wind up the trainer some good will be served

    Just to reiterate what Drone has said, bearing in mind the seriousness of this admittedly unfounded and unnamed allegation, such things should be reported, and can be entirely confidentially. There are a number of options:

    1. Call Racestraight on 08000 852580
    2. Complete the form at the following link: http://www.britishhorseracing.com/inside_horseracing/integrity/inside-information-where-to-go-for-support.asp
    3. Email info@britishhorseracing.com

    The reality is that much of the information we receive is intelligence and will not therefore be enough to take action. However, gathering and assessing intelligence allows the Integrity Team to take a proactive, intelligence-led approach and take action, whether that’s investigating or disrupting ("putting the wind up them" as Drone puts it).

    I can understand not wanting to name on here, though don’t think it’s especially helpful posting unsubstantiated claims, without at least informing us through one of the above channels.

    #371444
    CavCav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4809

    Where is it in the rules of racing that horses are not allowed to eat hay the day of a race? If allowed are specific quantities defined?

    Cheers.

    #371460
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    This story is an urban (or maybe rural) myth, as old as the hills. I’ve heard it several times before down the years, and am surprised that

    Plenipotentiary

    hasn’t. The only surprise is that he should believe his "pal", who was doubtless just trying to impress him.

    But there you are – cynics will believe

    anything

    !

    Shouldn’t we decently let the OP off the hook and forget about the matter?

    #371470
    fitzer1987fitzer1987
    Participant
    • Total Posts 221

    There is a serious sense of naivity on here if you think some trainners do not purposely stop horses. It may only be a handful but it happens all the time. Its a risk you take everytime you back a horse in lower graded races Im afraid.

    Over here I have heard of trainners galloping decent horses before races, then bring them to the track tired and pull them up a couple of times tailed off showing absolutely no ability. Then get into a handicap off rock bottom weight at 25/1 and absolutely hack up at 5/1. Gamble landed.

    There is an element of corruption in all sports. Unfortuanetly horse racing is particulary wide open to it!

    I believe there is an art to spoting these plots so you can either avoid been stung or maybe jump in and profit yourself.

    #371471
    KenhKenh
    Participant
    • Total Posts 738

    It may only be a handful but it happens all the time.

    Isn’t that a bit of a contradiction ?

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