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"Paul told me he was running for fitness at Down Royal not to trouble the judge".
"We took him to Down Royal in a G1 so the handicapper couldn’t get us (regarding Hennessey). He ran commendably as he was unfit and overweight."
Andy Stewart on Rocky Creek / this years Hennessey.
"Paul told me he was running for fitness at Down Royal not to trouble the judge".
"We took him to Down Royal in a G1 so the handicapper couldn’t get us (regarding Hennessey). He ran commendably as he was unfit and overweight."
Andy Stewart on Rocky Creek / this years Hennessey.
I think Andy Stewart’s comments were absolute rubbish. They make no sense what so ever. As I said earlier, do think connections actively look for excuses after a race. Including making up stuff about "running for fitness". It would be far easier to go through Rocky Creek’s form figures and argue he’s "best fresh" rather than "needing" a run after an absence.
A horse can go up just as much, sometimes more, for a placed effort (if fairly close to the winner) in a Grade 1 – as it can in a handicap. Besides, if the horse was supposedly "unfit and overweight" and ran in a handicap – it wouldn’t be placed anyway. Therefore, the handicapper couldn’t "get" the horse even had it run unfit in a handicap.
Interesting Timeform have Rocky Creek running pretty much to form at Down Royal. For Stewart to suggest the horse was "unfit and overweight" is crazy. As I said in the Hennessey thread,
"Rocky Creek was one I lost quite a bit of money on last season Steve, Hennessey, Argento and Grand National. Fairly good handicap mark, but level of form looks exposed now. I’ve come to the conclusion he doesn’t want to win. Head gear/ear plugs would be interesting. Travels well but doesn’t find a great deal under pressure. Could be one to back before the race and lay in running, when travelling well around the turn for home".
Anyone backing Rocky Creek at Newbury knew their fate from an early stage, never travelling with usual fluency and probably amiss. Prior to yesterday Rocky Creek ran every race as if he "needs it", but only because of temperament; moving through the race like a winner before finding zilch off the bridle. Both trainers and owners would often rather believe in anything else rather than facing reality of anything remotely negative about their charge.
Wondered why Rocky Creek was so short in the betting, now I know, owner and trainer hype.
Value Is EverythingWhether you or Timeform like it, he said it, and it was reported in the national press ( including GB,s highest selling tabloid).
I’m not going to be as bold as you and call Mr. Stewart a liar, but in addition to the content I have three major concerns.
1. This isn’t Mr. Stewarts first rodeo, he is a high profile, successful owner. One whom clearly believes the practices he describes as routine and is extremely candid with the media. This strikes me as he is not describing anything unusual to him, although this is conjecture on my part.
2. Nobody seems to think there is any issues at all with the quotes. They were just quoted within standard build-up pieces for a big race. Remarkable and disappointing.
3. I wonder if these quotes were attributed to an owner connected to the trainer, for example, Mr. B. Curley. Would the (non) feedback would have been the same? Both official and media?Whether you or Timeform like it, he said it, and it was reported in the national press ( including GB,s highest selling tabloid).
I’m not going to be as bold as you and call Mr. Stewart a liar, but in addition to the content I have three major concerns.
1. This isn’t Mr. Stewarts first rodeo, he is a high profile, successful owner. One whom clearly believes the practices he describes as routine and is extremely candid with the media. This strikes me as he is not describing anything unusual to him, although this is conjecture on my part.
2. Nobody seems to think there is any issues at all with the quotes. They were just quoted within standard build-up pieces for a big race. Remarkable and disappointing.
3. I wonder if these quotes were attributed to an owner connected to the trainer, for example, Mr. B. Curley. Would the (non) feedback would have been the same? Both official and media?I didn’t say Mr. Stewart was a "liar" PC, suspect he’s totally exaggerated what Nicholls told him. Trainers often give owners gobbledegook about why they’re running at a certain course at a certain time. Nicholls had an outstanding record in the JNWine and no doubt wanted a runner with a chance of winning a Grade 1. If Rocky Creek didn’t go for the race this season; Silviaco Conti was heading for the Betfair via Wetherby, Tidal Bay retired, Al Ferof not ready/going for a repeat Amlin Chase. Who else could’ve represented Nicholls?
As I’ve said, trainers want to believe their horse would’ve won under different conditions, whether that’s to do with race distance, going, ride or fitness. They also want to give excuses to owners why their horse did not win any race… And owners want to believe any excuse rather than the (often) real "not good enough". Why take as much notice of what someone so obviously biased tinks about his horse? Easiest excuse for anything running after a break is "needed it". I can just see Nicholls telling Stewart something like "The winner had an advantage of a run, but the Hennessey is our main early season target anyway. And Stewart turning that into…
Value Is EverythingI see. No problems then.
I’m actually amazed this hasn’t caused a right stink, but it seems I’m in a minority of one who thinks it’s unacceptable.
Dont get me wrong PC, am disturbed at what Stewart said. There would certainly have been questions to ask had there been evidence from the race in Ireland to suggest his words are true. But he ran his race and no evidence Rocky Creek needed the race at all, let alone needing it so badly that Stewart’s comments imply. In fact, Rocky Creek found more for pressure than is often the case. Just as had it been one of Barney Curley’s owners – race evidence should be key; not the owner’s words. Do think the BHA should have a quiet word with Andy Stewart over inflametry language.
Value Is EverythingNicholls says in his memoirs: ‘We don’t stop them.’
I’ve always found him one of the more open trainers in interviews.
In regard to general trainer/jockey tight-lippedness, surely there must be universal acknowledgement among them that the game has to be the way it is – a difficult thing deliberately made as complex and diaphanous as possible – for everyone in it to make a living. If trainer/jockey x said on saturday ‘yeah, my nag’s gonna piss it; everyone in lambourn knows, down to the potman in the pub, and I informed Ladbrokes last tuesday. Everyone’s on, including most of the jockeys in the race,’ well, there wouldn’t be any racing after a short while.Ginger, I’ve always found Mr Stewart quite well balanced and measured in his comments. He’s a long-term owner and very experienced businessman. I’m not saying he’d always quote his trainer verbatim in all conversations, but he has sufficient nous to be wary when talking to the press.
His message was that his trainer, in whatever words he used, said the horse was not fit enough to win in Ireland.
Some horses, as you say, cannot be got properly fit at home. But, just as trainers need to declare blinkers etc., shouldn’t they also declare whether the horse will, in their opinion, not be fit enough to win?
Okay, it will backfire on them at times – as it did with Nicholls with his winner – but we’d soon get to know which trainers know their horses properly!
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