NHS Sweepstakes Race raising £1.5bn p.a.

[GSP]

Hi SS,
c£30 million * 52 weeks = c£1.5 billion.

[sporting sam]

Ok. If a tiny fraction of that amount went into the sport, then courses would have a chance of surviving until they can reopen again to paying customers.

How do you come up with £30 million a week?
I would like to know what you base you projections on. It cannot be any previous racecourse attendances (which will be greatly reduced in future sadly) or current viewing television figures.
Courses like many other sections of business are running on thin air.
First wave of redundancies announced this week.
I dont think the public would fully support a lottery associated with horse racing.
Who would run such a lottery, the bookmakers? The bookmakers have a near monopoly on offcourse betting now, even owning the exchanges and yet very little reaches the sport in areas where it is needed. So they couldn’t run it.

Such an amount would be impossible to administrate and would likely end up in an offshore account in the Bahamas.
We already fund what you are suggesting a charity lottery for.
Not a criticism of your idea but I would like to understand more of your rationale behind it.

[GSP]

Thanks SS,
The calculation is not based on racecourse attendances. It’s a national draw using something like the infrastructure of Camelot and the lotto draws. Tickets worth £30 million a week are already bought for these draws.
With the British public’s appetite for sweepstakes, a flutter, lotto’s and to help good causes/charities, the £30 million a week would be easily surpassed. This is what would be left once prize money for the 20 winning tickets is allocated.
On the contrary, the concept of a sweepstake was successfully run and achieved in Ireland some years ago with ticket receipts of Euro’s 40 million. The big problem there was their business model was wrong. Imagine with ten times as many people here, my £30 million estimate may in fact be quite conservative!

Yes, I totally agree there are some big obstacles to conquer for this to ever get off the ground, and a nobody like me would not get anywhere.

My hope was that someone who is known out there with some clout and the same vision who believed in this idea would adopt and take this onboard and promote this.

[sporting sam]

I think you are trying to reinvent the wheel GSP.
The lottery already exists.
They have the monopoly on a national draw already. They would not want to see their cashcow diluted, unless it was their idea on their terms.

ITV are not interested you’ve approached them.
Camelot would be interested if it sold them more tickets and made them more money. It couldn’t be specific to one sport or one part of society to have overall appeal, so maybe roll your idea out across different models.

[GSP]

Thanks SS,
Camelot are always on the look out for new games, to keep things fresh, find new players.
Yes this may dilute the lotto a little, but my estimates are it would have little effect with most players using the same numbers for years and years. They will just carry on.

This is quite different to a lottery in that 20 winners know they will win a big prize at least, but the run of a race will determine if that figure will be £500,000 or £3 million. The excitement would be unbelievable.

When I approached ITV, they had only just started their new programme and said it would conflict with their ITV seven competition.
Maybe now after several years later they would listen to an idea that would attract so so many more people to their programme with the sums involved. It would dwarf their ITV seven tipster competition, probably dwarf their programme, but what viewing figures!

[sporting sam]

I still dont think you have thought this through.
A twenty runner race 52 weeks a year cannot be done. Sheer logistics. Non runners weather
Are you saying this race would take precedence over the derby, the national, royal Ascot, major jumps Hennessey?

Non cooperation from owners and trainers.

You couldn’t guarantee the projected prize money unless you sold a minimum target of tickets(without running at a loss).
You have months to claim a lottery prize, you are suggesting locating the winners in a couple of days!!
Just a few obstacles.

[GSP]

Thanks SS,
I would say off and on I have been thinking things through for many years, so hope I can answer most questions and concerns.

Once set up and established, I think it would be relatively easy to manage each week.
There would be reserves for the race to try keep the number to 20. If a horse was withdrawn shortly before a race, that ticket winner allocated the horse would receive set prize money.
In the event the whole race is not run, the money is divided equally between the 20 winners, which equates to around a million each. There will be no rollovers etc.
Suggest the draw happens on Thursday with winners invited to attend the racetrack on the Saturday when the race is run.

No, I see this as an extra feature to attract interest at home and at the racetrack. The big races will remain intact, this race will be the last on a card.

Not sure why owners and trainers would be against the idea. The owners day remains the same as before. I expect the race can be run using Class 3 or lower horses. There is a financial incentive to have a runner in the race, it would definitely put the horse on the map each time.
In all, no one loses.

Yes, prize money does depend on tickets sold but given the interest of the Irish Sweepstakes race where 20 million euro’s (not 40 in a previous post) was taken at 2 euro’s a ticket. With this idea more affordable at £1 an entry plus my estimates of 10 times more tickets sold in the UK, reaching £30 million a week may be a conservative estimate.

If for any reason the tickets are drawn, the race is run, the money paid out, but a winning ticket has not made themselves visible, they will still have six months to claim their prize.

[sporting sam]

So you are
1 suggesting a lottery ticket costing half as much as the curent one.
2 giving away 20 million of the projected 30 million as prize money
2 that would be just 10 million a week to your good cause before any take out by organisers.
3 that projected figure is barely 1/2 a billion not 1.5 billion assuming you could undermine the existing lottery and euro millions to get people to invest every week of the year.
I dont see this could work as you have cut off thousands of potential income streams from other areas who would not support racing alone.
Would it not also detract from lottery funding schemes already helping good causes?

[BigG]

Ok I’m not sufficiently versed on the running of such a venture to say it would be
the Frankel or the Quixall Crossett of lotteries, but I’m a little surprised, given
that TRF is generally an amiable sort of forum to air views and suggestions, that it
seems to have had in general a bit of a negative response. Whether lottery money is
squandered by the NHS, or as has been suggested disappears into a black hole, isn’t
really the problem with the lottery, it’s a problem for the NHS to sort out. As I said,
I’m maybe not in a position to say whether this would fly or not, but by the sound of
it it has been looked at in some depth by the GSP. It seems others think the the figures
don’t add up, again I’m not in a position to give a yea or nay on that, but simply as a
suggestion for a twist on the lottery, bringing horse racing into the equation, I actually
like the idea. Whether anyone is prepared to run with it I don’t know, but I wish you
well with it GSP

[GSP]

Thanks SS,
1. Yes, it’ll make it more affordable for more to be able to enter.
2. The Irish sweepstake race alone attracted 10 million tickets at 2 euro’s per entry. I’d expect that to be 10 times more here in the UK given our population is at least that amount larger than Ireland. Plus the smaller entry fee would encourage many more entries.
With the much larger population, the cheaper more affordable tickets, I would expect this to take at least a net figure of £60 million a week of which prize money would be £30 million of that.
The prize money would be tiered and depending where your allocated horse finished, you would win that sum.
20th place: £500,000.
19th: £550,000.
18th: £600,000.
17th: £650,000.
16th: £700,000.
15th: £750,000.
14th: £800,000.
13th: £850,000.
12th: £900,000.
11th: £950,000.
10th: £1,000,000.
9th: £1,250,000.
8th: £1,500,000.
7th: £1,750.000.
6th: £2,000,000.
5th: £2,250,000.
4th: £2,500,000.
3rd: £3,000,000.
2nd: £3,500,000.
1st: £4,000,000.

Total: £30,000,000.

Not a bad sum even for finishing last, with 10 millionaires created each week.

With the figures this would create, I am sure it would go much further in helping out in projects in their entirety, not just smaller sums to help contribute.
So much could get done.

[GSP]

Thanks Big G,
That is the most positive feedback and response I have ever had from anyone.
Thank you.

The idea is fresh, well given it hasn’t been tried for many years which I am very surprised about.
The Irish sweepstake was a big success, it was their business model which was all wrong, too extravagant!

Again thank you for your response. As mentioned I am not personally going to run with this as it needs ‘a name’ to push this forward. I would only be too pleased to help out however if required though if someone with ‘clout’ took this onboard, that’s if they wished.

[sporting sam]

Glad you got the positive feedback you desired GSP.
Negative feedback can be equally useful
and if you put something on an internet forum you need a hide like a Rhino.

Thank for the projections but you are basing them on something which does not compute to the model over here.

The figures do not seem to add up but that is my own opinion. I am no expert.

The desire for it on your part would be I’m sure to raise money for a good cause.
Bearing in mind there are several posters connected to racing Journalism. Perhaps they could give you some advice on who to speak to at ITV if you wanted to push in that direction.
Maybe you could tell ITV what a poor Prize the ITV seven is in comparison to the actual winning odds and shame them into supporting your idea.

If someone famous with a million followers announced on social media that that is what the country needs in these desperate times, then the Politicians would be all over it like a rash.
Good luck with your venture.

[GSP]

Thanks SS,
As well as trying to answer questions honestly, I was also only too pleased to read some positive thoughts with this, the first I had ever received hence my reaction from Big G’s post.

Your questioning has been oh so valuable and I welcome this just as much.
Sorry if you feel that way as I haven’t seen your posts as negative feedback at all. In fact as you say its best concerns are raised and addressed now because what’s the point if someone of note did ever want to take this on.
There are big obstacles to overcome that’s for sure, but this would have huge rewards and benefits for many if it ever came off.

I have based my projections and forecasts using different country populations and a sweepstake that has already been successfully run, but with a different business model and more affordable entry fee. I believe the numbers and the appetite for this would be there.
In summary, it takes £60 million a week with half returned in prize money. Camelot’s portion and other expenses would be relatively small.

It was a while ago now, but after communication with ITV, the BHA and Camelot I felt I hit a wall with these. This is where I would only be too pleased if someone already known out there, believed in this and took it onboard. I am sure they would have more success and go much further than I achieved!

ITV racing had only just started their new programme when I contacted them so they weren’t going to change things so soon from their plans. Perhaps they would listen now to new ideas, I don’t know. Someone who is regularly in touch with them might have that conversation? It would certainly increase their viewing figures by a considerable number.

Thank you for your best wishes SS and keep any questions coming.

[Richard88]

The major difference between this idea and the lottery is that every lottery ticket can still win before the draw is made. With this proposal, only the 20 winners have any interest in the race.

Sorry, but that is an incredibly hard sell. Yes, bookies could bet on the race but do they need to? There’s already 10,000+ races a year just in the UK. Betting on a charity event is a PR disaster waiting to happen.

I’d love to see a positive angle here but I just can’t.

The return of a betting tax would be a far more realistic proposition and with the impending black hole in the government’s finances it would seem to be a good source of potential revenue. Politically it would be very acceptable, other vices such as booze and fags are taxed up the eyeballs yet someone walks away with 10 million on the lottery and doesn’t pay a penny.

[GSP]

Thanks Richard,
Yes this is quite different to the lottery but like every ticket bought there is a chance to win.

With this idea however there is a guaranteed large payout every week. You are guaranteed a minimum half a million pounds, every week.

Let’s compare and look at the last 3 lotto payouts.
Yesterday: No jackpot winners, 1 ticket of £1 million and the next prize was just £1,750.
Last Wednesday: No jackpot winners, 1 ticket of £1 million and the next prize again was £1,750.
Last Saturday: No jackpot winners at all, the highest prize was just £1,750.

The lotto’s hard sell is just one ticket occasionally might walk away with £10 million as the jackpot rolls over from week to week. That’s what Camelot enjoy, no one winning the big prize for a while as it makes ‘good headlines’ for them to advertise. They go on some people’s pure greed.

It’s a wonder people do the lotto in reality, and this for £2 an entry while my idea is more affordable at £1.
And look what you get.
20 life changing sums, every week, guaranteed with 10 millionaires every week. I think when you compare against the two, I think you’d agree my idea is a more realistic proposition for winning the sort of amounts people enter a lottery for in the first place.

I wouldn’t lose any sleep about bookmakers not running their books on this. It’s a race under usual racing rules, I can’t see a reason why they wouldn’t.

That’s the thing, in a lottery just one person walks away winning £10 million every now and then, usually in gaps of many weeks while the jackpot rolls over.
This is every week, 10 millionaires.

And for those 20 winners who want to visit the racetrack to watch their race, what an occasion, the excitement would be tremendous. They are guaranteed to pick up at least £500,000, and it could be a whole lot more.

I believe if this race was established, seeing the spectacle and excitement each week would make players really want to participate to be in with a chance of winning.

[GSP]

Just bumping this to say it was the last race today the Balmoral Handicap where I approached entities to see if they were interested.
My thinking was on the UK’s richest race day, which gets lower profile than many other racedays would boost it’s profile.
I think it needs a feature to put the day on the map more.

Once after this inaugural run, if a success the sweepstake could then be applied each week.

[GSP]

Annual Bump!

[Author]

Posts