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NEW Q&A – Simon Rowlands, Timeform

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    • Total Posts 8780

    Many thanks to Simon for agreeing to stick his neck on the chopping block and for the time he’s clearly taken to provide a set of excellent responses. Much appreciated.

    • Total Posts 5770

    A fascinating thread – most enjoyable. Thanks, Simon

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference.

    Mr. PilsenMr. Pilsen
    • Total Posts 1684

    A good read and Simon has obviously taken a lot of time over this. Cheers.

    • Total Posts 2081

    My pleasure. Was expecting a rather bumpier ride :D

    • Total Posts 1981

    Thanks Simon.

    Maybe I wasn’t clear. This is a paradise island and those peddling win single spot bets have long since been thrown in jail, so the prices for finishing second have their own market and aren’t made in reference to any win odds.

    Never mind.

    • Total Posts 5085

    An excellent and informative set of replies, many thanks

    With regard to the query I posed, this part of your reply is particularly noteworthy:

    It appears that ways of calculating timefigures, and their importance in guiding form ratings, has changed since the early years. Timeform is more sceptical about one-off performances of apparent superlative merit nowadays, and that is reflected in the above. Timeform is also a lot more clued-up about how pace affects overall time than it once was (largely because the technology now exists to measure such things regularly). Frankel might never have run a time in the 140s, but Timeform was confident he COULD from an early stage, and a number of his runs were backed up by sectionals in line with his ultimate 147 form rating

    To the initiated it should come as no surprise that the methods utilised to compile robust Timefigures remain ‘a work in progress’ and that they are not the ultimate sealed approval or blackballed disapproval of the Form Ratings (also a healthy work in progress) that the unitiated perhaps believe them to be. Timefigures may help render the form ratings less subjective but they themselves are not – and probably never can be – wholly objective

    Who needs London when you have the fine city of Sheffield on your doorstep :)

    Have you had a wander up Kinder Scout yet? Or strolled from Hathersage to Stanage Edge? Or enjoyed afternoon tea on the banks of the Derwent in Matlock? Or got pissed at the Bakewell Show?

    Yep, Derbyshire and the Peak District, you fortunate fellow; and Prufrock would have loved it I’m sure :)

    • Total Posts 2081

    If I ever do get up Kinder Scout it will be wheezing, not wandering! Hathersage and environs a regular stamping ground. I do love it round here, but the last thing of note to occur was the Romans leaving nearly two millennia ago: I like a bit more stimulation at times!

    • Total Posts 2720

    Bumpy ride :shock:

    Drone in a previous slipper post
    suggested a lot of us are feeling
    our bones in here and many have
    locked their knuckle dusters
    in moth drawers but can still
    irritate by waving a walking stick

    Yes fascinating replies Pru and
    many thanks. Your views
    on forums was my bumpy ride 8) and being
    reminded of the Betfair trolls.

    When you left the Ultimate forum on
    a matter of principle it was a big moment
    and Ray took in a large intake of breath
    and later a gulp. I do not think he saw it coming.
    He seemed pretty low afterwards. For any
    admin an escapee is always bad for business,
    but an ultimate display of power for the poster.

    There have been a few on here and for you cronologiaclly


    – personal disagreements with Daylight


    – bone picked with Daylight – she forced his hand

    Keith the Teeth

    – too boring in the lounge


    – a protest against the new breed posters who were highjacking threads (myself and Balance) He left with his finger pointing

    Ian Davies

    – in protest against lack of sanction
    against another poster. He self obliterated
    forcing Daylight’s hand


    – In protest aginst what he considered
    the idiocy of the word association gang. He picked
    on Matron unfairly, one of the WA gang, and was immediately banned

    Jim JTS

    – felt the forum was going downhill but it was possibly his diminishing influence after Daylight sadly passed away. His large red – handed avatar revisited a couple of times
    to protest and then became folklore like the hairy hand.

    Reet hard

    – dissafection with the forum and felt he was
    unfairly an admin target.


    comes in another list :)

    Although sad occasions theses were fascinating battles and caused huge debate and energy.

    It would take me too long to comment on all of these exits and deaths, but will state that I found your exit from Ultimate a very honourable plank to walk.

    I feel I have written enough for the mo.. still wanted to write more and may after visiting the fridge.

    • Total Posts 2720

    I did forget


    who hated the new friends option.

    Pru as far as racing being s profitable pastime – even that might be far off. Think back to the early fifties when the high point in a man’s day was being served meat and two veg by a woman with red hands and often a cloth wrapped around curlers as she said – " You’re late – I have had a hard day, and I’m going to bed ".
    Admittedly in those early days you only had radio but a million people a week went to watch the dogs and many used to say they ran faster at Catford :D . What is the situation now ? Well all we have at the dog tracks now are cameras and cameras and cameras. So a game can go really bad given a major shift in interest and disaffection to other sports or interests

    This sort of erosion is starting in betting shops with the introduction of WMD’s and Mickey Mouse seen daily riding on a virtual horse. This may be the thin end of the wedge, but possibly not, horse racing does have a huge history – lets hope that saves it – and it doesn’t become that history.

    Must have been fun, initially at the Sportsman – I always felt its name was its weakness, but then again what do I know :lol:

    Actions speak louder than words and having a go at something that has risk is often better than mulling about what might have been so your stint there deserves credit.

    It has been nice to see some of the old names come back her. Obviously yourself Simon, but also Ian Davies, Alan Potts, Rory, and Graysoncolumn have ghosted back for a bit of banter.

    Anyway, thanks again for a very interesting and entertaining set of answers. I am stuck here in this godforsaken


    just a boy in old man’s clothes who hasn’t got the energy to leave. :|

    • Total Posts 5085

    Other ghosts


    Disliked the bells, whistles and hoopla of the new red TRF, and the ingratiating desire for a seat at high table within BHA Towers


    Last seen with handfuls of hair self-immolating on the fibresand at Southwell: he tried pro-punting you see

    • Total Posts 2720

    Not wishing to be considered a hijacker
    as we are here at the tail end of this
    remarkable thread to bear witness to
    Simon’s remarkable contribution here
    but :D

    Thank you Drone for correcting my omission
    of Grasshopper :oops: who would be in the Escorial
    class and was a very big name. Possibly
    Grasshopper if you are reading this you
    might pop in for a friendly or otherwisse,
    it’s so long since I had a scoop :o

    We cannot class Maxilon 5 as a defector,
    again Max if you are about :), surely he
    just slipped away, but was a marvelous
    contributor who burned the midnight oil,
    but with more passion than many of us.

    Paul Ostermeyer is off and for the same reasons
    as Barry Dennis (gissus a clue Glenn .. Denissspeak)
    to retire.

    I think those enjoying racing to the ultimate
    possibly have a job in the industry and
    as Pru puts it a profitable pastime.

    Some of the pros went back into finance markets
    when Betfair got the profit bug. To keep going
    in horse racing needs a lot of time – finance
    less so in my opinion, so a natural alternative
    I suggest, and one that takes my concentration
    at the moment for what little time I have,
    although I haven’t ruled out a return
    to the midnight oil :wink:

    • Total Posts 2720

    My attention has been drawn to
    the fact I have been a little over
    zealous in overdoing the subject
    of defectors on this fine thread.

    In normal fashion Q&A would naturally
    expire with comments and anecdotes
    relating to the given answers and
    often an expression of thanks

    My apologies to Simon and others
    for distracting this thread away
    from its intended and natural course.

    ( I have had to edit and re-write my apology
    I even got that wrong :oops: )

    Being selected for Q&A is very much like
    being knighted on TRF and those who
    have done it are in a select band of
    people who have a recognised talent
    or experience.

    • Total Posts 2720

    I certainly would not put you in a time straight-jacket,
    Simon, as I remember you writing and commenting on many
    subjects in the horse racing dictionary. On a lighter note
    they do say that time passes slower in the country, and it
    would be interesting if fact of you living in the Peak District has any effect on your research. Tennyson wrote the Light Brigade in a country setting on the Isle of Wight so it may
    aid thinking processes and ideas and inspiration to be in a tranquil setting. I suppose where people feel most comfortable may be the right answer. I have a country mouse head dressed in town mouse clothes :wink:

    I did a lot of my time work in the late nineties. I found my
    niche in betting on the younger horses that I rated as improvers at that time. I think in those days the handicappers may have been easier on them as I hit then on a veritable cash cow. I have never used speed alone as a factor in my past betting and I wonder if this could ever be successfully employed ?

    • Total Posts 2081

    The 5-minute riverside walk to the end of the field in front of the house and back is perfect for cogitation 8) and the banishing of occasional dark thoughts :evil: But I would not claim to have scaled Tennyson-like heights. :shock:

    I would say that sectional analysis, in conjunction with conventional form and time analysis, has the biggest potential edge I have ever come across in racing, not least because so many of the racing public just don’t get it. Best if it stays that way, really.

    Have we ever met, gamble? An Ultimate Betting Forum occasion, perhaps? My memory is not what it was, however.

    • Total Posts 2720


    I would say that sectional analysis, in conjunction with conventional form and time analysis, has the biggest potential edge I have ever come across in racing, not least because so many of the racing public just don’t get it. Best if it stays that way, really.

    So pleased Simon you left this gem with us and this to my mind crystallises your enthusiasm for racing and all the study you have done. Forget Tennyson ! Six hundred men would much rather be charging at these three dancing suns set on the edge of hope, than beady eyed russian cannon and a inglorious forgotten death and the possibility a false statistic on Pravda

    As far as meeting you, no I have only met Glenn and Sky. It could be arranged I am located mostly in the city

    My favourite film is Psycho and Wickerman would be in another in my list

    Aplogies for the late edit but these Q&A demand a pitch of sobriety and are kept for millenia :mrgreen:


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