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You’re having a go at someone for (supposedly) talking down to people? The apocalypse must be upon us.
The problem, Fists, is that you said Calgary Bay wouldn’t be off the bridle to win yesterday (you can try and justify your remark with the fact that he beat Free World, but in reality we know you meant he’d stroll the race), yet find excuses why he wasn’t ready only after he was beaten.
You just need to realise it’s OK to be wrong from time to time – the rest of us are used to it.
Free World won’t get Calgary Bay off the bridle….hack canter for the big horse.
When you make a sweeping statement like above you look great when it comes off.
But it will mean nothing if you make excuses when it does not.
Oh I knew when I saw the price, the trainer did not have the horse fit……became a sprint…..needs further now….but he will still win at this distance.
Everyone gets it wrong some times Fist.
It was always possible before the race he might need a left-handed course, or further, or does not find much under pressure, or whatever. If you think there are possible reasons for not winning please say so beforehand.
Mark
You are unbelievable mate. First of he did kick Free World into touch and secondly there are veryoften excuses put forward for horses after they get beat. Am Inotallowedto voice my opinion on YOUR FORUM?
How the hell would you know how fit she had him? AP loves the horse but went elsewhere to ride. The horse should have been fav based on there prices in the Arkle before the race but wasn’t. For some reason Free World who was beaten fair and square was odds on fav. Why do you think thatwas Ginge?
The difference between you and I mate is I will always make money out of racing because I have a half decent understaning of it, whereas you can only see black and white.
Maybe I am totally wrong about Calgary Bay, time will tell but that does not give you the right of place to come on here and talk down to people like you are making fortunes out the game….bloody laughable!.
Incidentally, are you trying to tell me that trainers down’t let horses down prior to Cheltenham? If I am wrong why do you think the bookies still make him second fav over the horse who beat him?
Fist,
You make so many comments about Paul Nicholls and other people within racing. Why can’t I make a comment about what you do? In a civilised, non-swearing, non abusive way. I am only trying to point something out to you, that it is o.k. to be wrong sometimes. Nothing else, so please don’t feel threatened.
My point is you said the horse would win in a hack canter, then after he didn’t, came on and made excuses that were easy enough to spot beforehand. (Other than the dubious one about not being fit). Why say he’d win in a hack canter if there was always the possibility of a slow pace / needing further etc.
I am just giving my opinion, not talking down to anyone. You might be a better judge than me, I might be better than you. We don’t know.
I never see racing as black and white. Every horse has positives and negatives BEFORE the race.
“How the hell do I know how fit he was”? Well, I could turn that around and say how do you know he was not? This far off Cheltenham there is no point not being as fit as possible. If Hen wants to let the horse down now, before bringing him back for Cheltenham, she can. There is plenty of time.
Why was Calgary Bay shorter than Free World for the Arkle before the Lightning Novices Chase?
There was, before yesterday a distinct possibility Calgary Bay was best on a left-handed course. Where as Free World has been said by Paul Nicholls as best going right-handed. Also, Nicholls has several other possible Arkle contenders. So, before yesterdays race there was a probability of Free World not running in the Arkle. Therefore, was not surprising to find Calgary Bay at a shorter price than Free World for Cheltenham.Calgary Bay might win the Arkle Fist, not saying he won’t. Hope he wins for you. But for me he has something to prove. Please allow me to have an opinion.
I think it would’ve been better had you come on and said, "I got it wrong there, he did not have the pace. But the left- handed, stiffer course will suit him a lot better".
Mark
Value Is EverythingI’m sorry, Bosranic, but Calgary Bay’s now been beaten both times at around 2 miles over fences. He may (stress ‘may’) have had excuses on his first run, but what excuse did he have yesterday, when he was fit, experienced, and beaten by a horse who was rated about 10lbs below I’msingingtheblues?
McCoy and Knight might think the horse has a lot of potential, but that’s hardly a reason to back him blind – especially when the form book tells you he will be much better off over further than the minimum trip.
Great? Not by any definition.
Surprised nobody has mentioned how good the time of this race was in comparison to the Victor Chandler. The 2 races were run at a similar gallop, the VC agrugably slighly a bit faster, and Panjo Bere’s time was just a second and a half slower. Even if you have Master Minded running to a figure in the 160’s on bare form, difficult to have him higher considering the proximity of Mahogany Blaze, that puts the first 2 in mid to high 150’s ratings and therefore imo both leading candidates for the Arkle.
Made my first trip to the new Ascot yesterday, can’t say that I was impressed with the new stand and facilities, but that’s another issue.
I will admit to backing Free World and three out it looked a two horse race . Looking back I wonder if the front two were racing to far from home on what looked soft holding ground.
In relation to Calgary Bay he is a really nice looking animal, but only two wins and seven seconds in his career tapers my enthusiasm as a horse to have my hard earned on.
I’m sorry, Bosranic, but Calgary Bay’s now been beaten both times at around 2 miles over fences. He may (stress ‘may’) have had excuses on his first run, but what excuse did he have yesterday, when he was fit, experienced, and beaten by a horse who was rated about 10lbs below I’msingingtheblues?
McCoy and Knight might think the horse has a lot of potential, but that’s hardly a reason to back him blind – especially when the form book tells you he will be much better off over further than the minimum trip.
Great? Not by any definition.
Seems to be more Racing Demon than Best Mate that’s for sure – running and getting beaten over an inadequate trip because the trainer doesn’t like X race (which incidentally she’s won in the past).
David Johnson
No, I mentioned it on page 1 or 2, but it may have got lost beneath the ‘my penis is bigger than yours argument’
I’ve backed Calgary Bay and Panjo Bere for the Arkle as I think the form is very good. I hand-timed sections of the race and was very very surprised how much speed Calgary Bay has. Obviously I’m now hoping that Cheltenham brings out the best of him.
My apologies Reasonoverfaith, I’ll admit to only skimming the thread for the reasons you state.
I’m sorry, Bosranic, but Calgary Bay’s now been beaten both times at around 2 miles over fences. He may (stress ‘may’) have had excuses on his first run, but what excuse did he have yesterday, when he was fit, experienced, and beaten by a horse who was rated about 10lbs below I’msingingtheblues?
McCoy and Knight might think the horse has a lot of potential, but that’s hardly a reason to back him blind – especially when the form book tells you he will be much better off over further than the minimum trip.
Great? Not by any definition.
I fancied this horse to be an Arkle ‘contender’ before he jumped a fence in public and, with this years renewal looking far from vintage, I still think he has a big chance.
His form figures tell us that he normally finds one or two too good, and the same may happen at Cheltenham, but he has more ticks in the right boxes than the majority of the field.
We know he travels well, he jumps well and, as he showed over hurdles, he’s not short of speed. His two wins from eleven career starts have both come at Cheltenham with AP in the saddle. The big, galloping track suits him and places further emphasis on stamina and good jumping. Hopefully AP wil be back in the saddle for the race – I don’t think, given the chance, he would swop him for anything.
Often a horse that pulls in his races (he did during the early stages of yesterdays race), the pace of the Arkle will suit and, with Kicking King running close in ’04 and the likes of My Way De Solzen and Tidal Bay claiming victory in recent years, it does help if you stay further than the minimum trip.
His fluent jumping puts others under pressure, forcing tham into mistakes. It happened to Kicks For Free at Cheltenham and I knew that once he applied some preesure during the race yesterday, the same would apply to Free World.
I mentioned before yesterdays race that he had the beating of Free World on hurdles form. Hurdle racing is, of course, a different discipline, but the likes of Free World, Planet Of Sound and I’msingingtheblues (who he also beat over hurdles) were never going to improve for a fence the way this chap was given his physical potential. He did really well over the smaller obstacles despite being ‘physically immature’.
I’msingingtheblues gave him 6lbs and a length beating at Donnie. Paul Nicholls horse held the fitness and experience advantage that day over a horse that, unknown at the time, was having his first run of the season after an injury at home.
Henrietta Knight has been forced to run this horse three times in five weeks to make up for lost time and I doubt he’s been 100% for any of his races this season.
His resolution has been questioned, but on the one occasion he’s been given his conditions – a trip over fences – he’s won.
The conditions of the Arkle will suit him more than most. The only reservation I have is the potentially large field – his only poor run came in the Supreme Novices’ last season.
I highlighted this horse as a 40/1 shot before his seasonal return – hardly stating the obvious and the potential is there for him to progress further next season. You’ll see some real damage when HK steps him up to three miles.
Calgary Bay, not the likes of Binocular or Albertas Run, was chosen by AP as ‘one to follow’ this season and he recently called him ‘the most athletic big horse I’ve ever ridden’. HK called him a ‘superstar of the future’ and made comparisions with Best Mate (contrary to popular belief she never said the same about Racing Demon).
As I said earlier, he travels, jumps, isn’t short of speed, loves Cheltenham and the pace of the race will suit. AP in the saddle would be an added bonus and he’ll be hard to keep out the frame. Given the lack of strength in depth, he holds claims of winning the race. I’msingingtheblues will provide Paul Nicholls with his best chance and Jayo is the pick from Ireland.
Free World won’t get Calgary Bay off the bridle….hack canter for the big horse.
When you make a sweeping statement like above you look great when it comes off.
But it will mean nothing if you make excuses when it does not.
Oh I knew when I saw the price, the trainer did not have the horse fit……became a sprint…..needs further now….but he will still win at this distance.
Everyone gets it wrong some times Fist.
It was always possible before the race he might need a left-handed course, or further, or does not find much under pressure, or whatever. If you think there are possible reasons for not winning please say so beforehand.
Mark
You are unbelievable mate. First of he did kick Free World into touch and secondly there are veryoften excuses put forward for horses after they get beat. Am Inotallowedto voice my opinion on YOUR FORUM?
How the hell would you know how fit she had him? AP loves the horse but went elsewhere to ride. The horse should have been fav based on there prices in the Arkle before the race but wasn’t. For some reason Free World who was beaten fair and square was odds on fav. Why do you think thatwas Ginge?
The difference between you and I mate is I will always make money out of racing because I have a half decent understaning of it, whereas you can only see black and white.
Maybe I am totally wrong about Calgary Bay, time will tell but that does not give you the right of place to come on here and talk down to people like you are making fortunes out the game….bloody laughable!.
Incidentally, are you trying to tell me that trainers down’t let horses down prior to Cheltenham? If I am wrong why do you think the bookies still make him second fav over the horse who beat him?
Fist,
You make so many comments about Paul Nicholls and other people within racing. Why can’t I make a comment about what you do? In a civilised, non-swearing, non abusive way. I am only trying to point something out to you, that it is o.k. to be wrong sometimes. Nothing else, so please don’t feel threatened.
My point is you said the horse would win in a hack canter, then after he didn’t, came on and made excuses that were easy enough to spot beforehand. (Other than the dubious one about not being fit). Why say he’d win in a hack canter if there was always the possibility of a slow pace / needing further etc.
I am just giving my opinion, not talking down to anyone. You might be a better judge than me, I might be better than you. We don’t know.
I never see racing as black and white. Every horse has positives and negatives BEFORE the race.
“How the hell do I know how fit he was”? Well, I could turn that around and say how do you know he was not? This far off Cheltenham there is no point not being as fit as possible. If Hen wants to let the horse down now, before bringing him back for Cheltenham, she can. There is plenty of time.
Why was Calgary Bay shorter than Free World for the Arkle before the Lightning Novices Chase?
There was, before yesterday a distinct possibility Calgary Bay was best on a left-handed course. Where as Free World has been said by Paul Nicholls as best going right-handed. Also, Nicholls has several other possible Arkle contenders. So, before yesterdays race there was a probability of Free World not running in the Arkle. Therefore, was not surprising to find Calgary Bay at a shorter price than Free World for Cheltenham.Calgary Bay might win the Arkle Fist, not saying he won’t. Hope he wins for you. But for me he has something to prove. Please allow me to have an opinion.
I think it would’ve been better had you come on and said, "I got it wrong there, he did not have the pace. But the left- handed, stiffer course will suit him a lot better".
Mark
Ginge the damage was done when you wrote that crap……..you think I am a 5 year old you can lecture then go for it………as I said you haven’t got a clue about racing and quite frankly I find your posts extremely boring and have no interest in anything you have to say……….is that clear enough for you?
Fist,
I have no interest in any slanging matches. To be honest, sadly it does feel like I am lecturing a five year old, who responds to reasoned argument and constructive criticism with swearing and abuse. Something that must be getting very boring for other trfers. For their benefit, you will be glad to know I am not going to respond to any more of your posts in future. As anyone knows I try to answer any questions asked of me. So, if you are genuinely not interested in what I have to say Fist, I suggest you don’t ask me any more questions.
Goodbye
Mark
Value Is EverythingWhen you write things like this
"When you make a sweeping statement like above you look great when it comes off.
But it will mean nothing if you make excuses when it does not.
Oh I knew when I saw the price, the trainer did not have the horse fit……became a sprint…..needs further now….but he will still win at this distance."
That is mocking at it’s worst and such bad manners don’t deserve an answer.
This is the second time you have went out of your way to blatantly insult me on here and it’s about time someone had a word in your ear mate.
When you can discuss things without being bad mannered and insulting I will be glad to anwser any questions you have.
Certainly never dented my confidence in the horse for a couple of reasons.
The minute I saw 4/5 Free World and 9/4 being offered about CB I was more tha suspicious that CB might be just a bit short for this.
Perhaps she has taken a leaf out of Nicky Henderson’s book who tends to run them a bit short pre chelters.
I also thought Elsworth was riding him to beat one horse. Free World was outclassed IMO and went out like a light turning for home.If he hadn’t I doubt if the eventual winner would have got back into it. Once he did it became a bit of a sprint which is the very thing you wouldn’t want involved in with abig horse like CB.
Having said that despite balloning the last he has run on well and showed that 2m4f will be his min distance in the future.
With a strong gallop, the stiff course and thisa being a pretty poor renewal I would think he has an excellent chance of winning the Arkle.
Fist,
O.K. will try and explain again, can not believe you have taken such a small criticism to heart. Yet you can say the only reason Paul Nicholls ran Kauto Star in the Betfair Chase was money / greed. Seems hypocritical to me that you can not take a little criticism yourself Fist.
If we are not able to point out (using reasoned comment and no swearing) other members inconsistancies, then the Forum will go downhill. With people saying anything they wish, one thing in one thread and the opposite in another. Please do not blow the situation out of all proportion by trying to get me banned. I don’t want you to be banned Fist, as you do come up with some good posts. Even if I mostly disagree with your opinion.
Your tip of Binocular for the Champion Hurdle, just after his debut, was a master stroke. You were so confident, with what could be said to be a “sweeping statement”. Only seeing the positives. And I believe you have said similar things about other horses who have gone on to do well too. Which is a credit to you.
However, when you say other “sweeping statements” like the one about Calgary Bay “will win in a hack canter” (or words to that effect). But then, when it does not come off….. You back track and make so many excuses. Seemingly as if to say “I would not have tipped it had I known”. Most of those excuses could have been seen beforehand as possible negatives too.
It takes something away from the times you are right e.g. Binocular. Because it makes people wonder whether you would’ve come up with excuses if he did not make the grade either.
I am only saying don’t be afraid to be wrong sometimes. Equitrack made the same comment but I see no attack on him.
Well Fist, you’ve got a free run for the next few days as I have got to do a little bit of revision. I need all the help I can get. This bloke who "hasn’t got a clue about racing" is taking on journalists from the Racing Post, Raceform etc. in a racing quiz.
Sorry, does that class as "mocking"? Could not resist. 
The End
Mark
Value Is EverythingWell…I saw the end of the race and was disappointed with Free World…
…but is he now one to dodge next time, or to lump on when the ground is good?
Zip
I think he is a minimum trip horse Zippy simply. 16f speed track surely would be the best option for him.
Free World had a very hard race last time out in a race run in an exceptional time. So may not have recovered in time. It is, however, disconcerting in both races he looked the winner turning in. It might just be his temperament.
I think the ground was pretty soft at Sandown anyway. And why he would not put up as good a performance over 2m1f at Ascot as on similar or softer at Sandown over 2m? Can’t see going or distance as the answer.
Mark
Value Is Everything
Sorry, does that class as "mocking"? Could not resist. 
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