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RE: Shergar.
I don’t think it is beyond the realms of anyone’s imagination to think that Shergar could have defeated the likes Master Willie (’81 Eclipse winner) and Beldale Flutter (’81 Benson & Hedges Gold Cup winner) that year over that distance, or for that matter Vayrann (Champion Stakes winner).
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But what I cant understand is why the big fuss about Authorized not running in the KG when is already been pointed out that he would have very little to race against and imo winning would prove very little. The far more game route is to go 10f and race the top horses because thats where most of them appear to be at this moment in time.
He may not win, but he might as well try, ultimately it is the arc which will be used to decide how good he is wherever he goes next because that is now seen as the ultimate all ages 12f race. sad for the KG but true nevertheless imo.
But what I cant understand is why the big fuss about Authorized not running in the KG when is already been pointed out that he would have very little to race against and imo winning would prove very little. The far more game route is to go 10f and race the top horses because thats where most of them appear to be at this moment in time.
He may not win, but he might as well try, ultimately it is the arc which will be used to decide how good he is wherever he goes next because that is now seen as the ultimate all ages 12f race. sad for the KG but true nevertheless imo.
Couldn’t agree with you more. PCH is being criticised for choosing the harder route.
In a game where, NH including, a top horses schedule is carefully planned to prevent him from meeting another high class performer, it’s refreshing to see PCH aiming his star at the tougher races.
With only a three week break, it was either the KG or the Juddmonte / Irish Champion (It seems the Juddmonte). This will give the horse six weeks to recover for the Arc – the same time it took him to recover between the Eclipse and the Juddmonte.
His Dante run was only two weeks before the Derby. His Derby run was followed by the Eclipse – three runs in less than three months. Some say the Derby shouldn’t have taken much out of him. But you have to take into consideration his preperation, the preliminaries, the undulations of Epsom etc – there’s no such thing as an easy Derby winner.
Yes, other horses have had busier campaigns. But you only have to look at his 2YO season and the time it’s taken him to recover from the Eclipse to realise this horse may not have a strong constitution.
Whilst we are on the subject of the KG. I still say Maraahel could upset the front two. Here’s my prediction – Soldier Of Fortune will beat Dylan Thomas, who’s far better over 10F.
Regarding Deep Impact – he was massively overhyped and over-rated. I know Zorro would argue the toss all day but he was a 126 – 128 horse he did absolutely nothing to suggest he was better than that. When he came up against the very best on the big stage he got turned over and a line through Hearts Cry suggests that that level of form is a pretty reliable guide.
So the Japanese races like the Japan Cup are not top class??? Why did quija board only finish third so. I am actually quite surprised at the amount of people who still seem to think that grade 1s from that part of the world are inferior to ours when in reality they might even be better. Our top class horses go down and get beaten yet are forgiven far easier than they are here.
SHL
The Arc is probably the only race left in Europe where all the best horses do face each other.
I think it is true; there is a lot of ducking and diving these days and a avoidance from trainers to pitch their good horses against others’ stable ‘stars’ in top class races.
Maybe owners and trainers were more sporting in the past
Wasn’t the Benson & Hedges Gold Cup (now the Juddmonte) inaugurated in 1972 so that Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef could face one another again on British soil – even though, on that particular occasion, Mill Reef had to miss the race.
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"SirHarryLewis":nlml2ygh wrote: Regarding Deep Impact – he was massively overhyped and over-rated. I know Zorro would argue the toss all day but he was a 126 – 128 horse he did absolutely nothing to suggest he was better than that. When he came up against the very best on the big stage he got turned over and a line through Hearts Cry suggests that that level of form is a pretty reliable guide.
So the Japanese races like the Japan Cup are not top class??? Why did quija board only finish third so. I am actually quite surprised at the amount of people who still seem to think that grade 1s from that part of the world are inferior to ours when in reality they might even be better. Our top class horses go down and get beaten yet are forgiven far easier than they are here.
I think it’s harder for English horses to acclimatise in Japan etc than vice versa. Imo, their Group Ones are for the best part slightly inferior to European Group Ones, although there are a few notable exceptions.
I think it’s harder for English horses to acclimatise in Japan etc than vice versa.
Why do you believe this?
SHL
Harry,
To use an analogy – FIFA are considering banning international teams from playing at altitude? Why? Thats pretty obvious…
regardless of acclimatisation deep impact was not in france long enough to have a proper preparation and on top of that the horse was ill and required medication in the run up, if it had been any normal race back home he wouldnt have run but it was the arc so he did. I think the horse was underated on official ratings due to this view of inferiority we have about races in the far east.
If Deep Impact wasn’t right he wouldn’t have run as well as he did. He was fine there weren’t any excuses (he was expected to win) he just wasn’t quite good enough.
I think it’s harder for English horses to acclimatise in Japan etc than vice versa.
Why do you believe this?
Often horses run in climates like Japan and run far too poor for it to be their true running. Whereas looking at the few that came over here in recent years – they were there or thereabouts.
If Deep Impact wasn’t right he wouldn’t have run as well as he did. He was fine there weren’t any excuses (he was expected to win) he just wasn’t quite good enough.
I disagree, he travelled through the race like the best horse and it seemed to me he wasn’t 100% fit.
Often horses run in climates like Japan and run far too poor for it to be their true running.
Remarkably, British horses have won the Japan Cup on three occasions, the first being Jupiter Island. The excellent Pilsudski and most recently, Alkaased are the two others to share the honour.
Harry,
To use an analogy – FIFA are considering banning international teams from playing at altitude? Why? Thats pretty obvious…
But whats harder about european horses going to Japan than their ones coming here? Is that an altitude related issue also?
SHL
I don’t get all this "the King George is dead" stuff.
Last year’s race saw an exciting finish between Hurricane Run, Electrocutionist and Hearts Cry all multiple G1 winners with £millions of prize money to their names.
In 2005, Azamour (who had already won 3 G1’s) won, Arc holder Bago was 3rd and a number of multiple G1 winners (including Warrsan and Grey Swallow) were in the field.
2004, Doyen beat Hard Buck and Sulamani (plus other G1 winners).
So, this year’s field looks poor?
No wonder. There’s a lack of strength of depth at that distance right now.
Shirocco, Hurricane Run and Pride retired last winter. Rail Link is injured. Authorized has just run in the Eclipse.So, I don’t see any evidence that the race is being ignored …or that it’s no longer regarded as important by connections.
Steve
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