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King Ed’

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  • #1602618
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Why isn’t Changingoftheguard clear favourite? :unsure:

    2/1 or 15/8 I’ll have some of that!

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    #1602619
    FinalFurlong91
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    Because he ran 13 days ago and it’s gd to firm ground maybe?

    He should be odds on looking at the ratings as he has plenty in hand

    If changingoftheguard runs to his mark he will win, if he improves on his mark he will win easily

    But will he, I’d wager he had a pretty hard race at Epsom having made the running

    The question is whether the price takes that into account

    He might be one I back if iv had a good day and leave alone if its been a bad one

    #1602622
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Admittedly backing up from the Derby isn’t easy so may not be “on song”. Race times on Derby day suggest it was good-firm so this shouldn’t be any different to Epsom and ran a fair race there. His action is more of a sound surface animal than soft. Used pretty much as a pacemaker – going too fast too early – But not given an overly hard time once out of the first three. Had he missed Epsom would be odds-on here. possibly long odds-on. Can still win this if not running to form. Changingoftheguard may be able to dictate too.

    Lysander and Dark Moon Rising have led before but are more prominent / track pace than proper front runners. Don’t think either one of those two’s stamina limitations would be suited by taking on Changingoftheguard up front. Lysander only third best in the Cocked Hat and of the three I’d say the least needy of a step up in trip.

    Only twice raced Ottoman Fleet has potential to improve but needs to in order to get near an on song Changingoftheguard. Godawful runner has been green if not temperamental / slowly away / stumbled and could be 10 lengths behind the Coolmore’s runner in no time.

    Grand Alliance and Savoy Victory were a long way behind Changingoftheguard in the Derby and Chester Vase respectively. Latter only beaten 1 3/4 lengths last time by Ottoman Fleet, 12 1/2 by Changingoftheguard. Although Savoy didn’t appear to stay that day., which makes it difficult for him here.

    Dark Moon Rising surely doesn’t deserve to be the outsider of this party? After being a bit free at 1m2f is a doubtful stayer. However, was fourth in the Dante and beaten fewer lengths by Desert Crown than Changingoftheguard was in the Derby. Even with improvement of the Derby winner and Changingoftheguard’s probably being below form at Epsom, is an interesting stat. Me thinks Worth a speculative wager at around 25/1.

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    #1602625
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    “The question is whether the price takes that into account”.

    That’s the thing, it has imo allowed far too much for the chance of Changingoftheguard being significantly enough below his best that he fails to win. 5/4 I wouldn’t take, 6/4 close. but 15/8.
    A better or worse chance than 35% chance?

    Or put it the other way around, does he really have more than a 65% chance of running so far below form not to win?

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    #1602638
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    I still think Changingoftheguard might be best on a softer surface than he will get today.

    I had him running to a better number at Chester than at Epsom.

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    #1602643
    FinalFurlong91
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    I backed him in the Derby and was particularly dissapointed with how little he found

    It’s very possible he’s not actually that good

    Ryan did give him an excellent ride at Chester

    Don’t really trust ottoman fleet he seems quirky enough so looking a no bet for me

    #1602655
    FinalFurlong91
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    What do we think of lysander?

    Will he be better on this ground

    There’s a chance he could be as both the sire and dam sire have high strike rates on gd to firm

    He’s going to need to improve but he’s only had 3 starts so very possible

    #1602657
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    In the Derby Changingoftheguard went too quick early; basically being used as a pacemaker and not doing equal fractions. Therefore the form not as good as Chester. Didn’t have as much left for the closing stages. Also jockey not hard on him once out of the placings.

    Still possible Changingoftheguard is better on softer, but horses with his action are rarely worse on good-firm.

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    #1602678
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Lysander is certainly with the right trainer and should go on the ground, FF. At the moment although he is improving it seems only a steady progression rather than in leaps and bounds. So the going change probably has to work wonders. Looking at his last time out run in the Listed Cocked Hat, can’t say he was at all unlucky in third. Maybe would’ve been better suited by a stronger pace but that applies even more to the winner Lionel. Both Lionel and Aidous Huxley are (or were) better horses on the day. Also currently seems the weakest in the betting – which is unusual if he’s a fancied Highclere horse – but tbh his price doesn’t appear at all value to my eyes. Fairly certain he’ll race prominently, but – with Changingoftheguard there – his position is unlikely to help. Shouldn’t be good enough to win an average standard King Ed’, but (Changingoftheguard aside) this looks a weak renewal.

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    #1602680
    FinalFurlong91
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    Yes it’s a terrible renewal

    The worst I can remember in recent years

    #1602686
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    “The worst I can remember in recent years”.

    —————–

    For that reason Dark Moon Rising keeps attracting my eye. Might go in again!
    4th to Desert Crown in the Dante and may have been closer still had he not been keen early.
    5th has come out and ran well yesterday, closeish 3rd in the Hampton Court.
    Current OR is better than Lysander, Grand Alliance and Savvy Victory.
    If settling – which may be a problem upped in trip – could spring a surprise.

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    #1602730
    Mike007
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    Ottoman fleet for me.

    #1602739
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Fair comment from GT.

    Time and time again when horses face a tougher task, are asked to go that half stride quicker than their comfort zones allows, if it breaks them it usually breaks them big time and they don’t run to as big an overall figure as they would have done if conservatively ridden simply to achieve the best possible (and probably losing) position.

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    #1602741
    FinalFurlong91
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    An upset does look very possible

    May even be worth backing all 3 outsiders against the fancied 3

    #1602755
    All Jeff
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    Grand Alliance looks to have a decent chance here, so I’ve taken 12-1

    #1602809
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    Changingoftheguard now 11/10. :wacko:

    Sweating up though. :whistle:

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    #1602811
    Mike007
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    • Total Posts 9525

    The 2nd looked unlucky there.

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