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Kempton was discussed on Talking Points on “Luck On Sunday” yesterday. Lee Mottershead is the first person I have heard openly say the Jockey Club wants to move the King George to Aintree. Or at least wanted to, until the low sun a few weeks ago made that plan look dubious.
Nick Luck is on the committee at Aintree. He said he didn’t want to see the King George at the track and thought it should go to Sandown instead.
All seemed fairly sure of Kempton’s demise.
If the ‘deal’ was struck in 2018 I would be interested to know what discussions took place at that time and who exactly signed it off?
In my view Kempton is just behind Cheltenham & Aintree in terms of its historical value to jump racing.
Neither Aintree nor Sandown would be suitable alternatives for the King George. The only close equivalent would be Ascot.
But as Luck pointed out, the two King Georges run at Sandown were won by One Man and Kicking King. Both also winners of the race at Kempton and not exactly sloggers that needed deep ground.
It also would keep the race local and the people who go to Kempton would still be able to attend.
Aintree would have no problems staging the race from an infrastructure point of view but the low sun issue rules it out, unless the race was run at something like 1pm. I doubt ITV would be pleased about that.
It wouldn’t be ideal but, with or without the King George, Aintree could solve its low sun problem by the use of portable fences if necessary, changing a low sun race from a travesty of a jumping test to the opposite as the jumps would be much closer together.
To think Kicking King won the King George while Kempton was being ‘refurbished’. 20 years later they are going to turn it into a housing estate!
Sandown too can have its low sun issues especially over the Pond fence. I’m sure Ascot must have omitted obstacles in the past but I can’t remember the last time that happened?
The fact that JCR executives want The King George at Aintree shows how clueless they are when it comes to racing and explains the mess they have made of things in recent years
CAS,
“but the low sun issue rules it out, unless the race was run at something like 1pm.”
Or perhaps it could be run at 3:30. I’ve just checked the official sunset time for Boxing Day and it’s 3:58. And if you watch the 3:25 race from the meeting in December, it looks to me as if the sun is a) very low (obviously) but also b) more behind the stands. So at least what you can see during this bumper is that the hurdle course and quite a stretch beyond are in shadow, even though it’s clear on the home turn that the sun is still shining.
Certainly that late in the afternoon, the sun is at an angle that shouldn’t affect the chase runners. But they did take hurdles out in the race timed at 1:05, so 1pm probably wouldn’t be guaranteed safe.
All hypothetical and I’d vote for Sandown anyway – and I’d move the race to the first Saturday in January so that public transport would be available. Sandown could never cope with 15k+ if they all arrived by car.
Sandown abandoned again this week. Both Sandown Military meetings lost this year. The 2nd time that Grand Military day has been abandoned since 2020.
No such problems for Kempton this weekend despite only 22 miles separating both courses.
Sandown waterlogged yet Kempton just a few miles away is a mixture of good to soft and soft tells its own story.
Yes the King George can be run at Sandown but it still turns it into much more of a stamina test (especially on winter ground) and if you watch the finish of One Man’s win that was the first sign I ever saw of him going up and down on the same spot on the run in and I am convinced he went into the red zone that day and never forgot it.
One Man had already won a Hennessy over the Gold Cup trip a year before that King George but subsequently to that King George he always hit that wall (especially at Cheltenham) when he came off the bridle after 3m, whilst Kicking King was a much stronger stayer as he actually won a Gold Cup. The days of the good 2½m horse trying to step up to the 3m trip I think would be a thing of the past if the race went to Sandown.
Also what is to stop the Jockey Club from potentially neglecting Sandown like it did to Kempton? I also don’t think that Sandown’s hurdles course in particular (where it merges with the flat course) can take many more added fixtures especially given the over watering the flat course gets during the flat season, Kempton with its AW track doesn’t suffer from that issue, which would in part explain why it would be more likely to have better ground than Sandown in general to.
Had the Jockey Club actually supported Kempton in similar ways to what they have done at both Aintree/Cheltenham (I invested in the JC’s Bond Scheme when they worked on the redevelopment of Cheltenham – a similar thing potentially could have been done to redevelop Kempton too) the sport surely wouldn’t find itself in this predicament now.
They fact that once the Kempton sale got massive blowback from all quarters, they quietly behind the scenes went ahead and sold off the option rights to Barrett Redrow and conveniemtly said nothing to anyone until it got inadvertantly blurted out with the infamous line of ‘the sale of Kempton is out of our hands now’ some 7-8 years later tells you just how transparent the JC is.
“Or perhaps it could be run at 3:30. I’ve just checked the official sunset time for Boxing Day and it’s 3:58. And if you watch the 3:25 race from the meeting in December, it looks to me as if the sun is a) very low (obviously) but also b) more behind the stands”.
The race could be run at 3.30pm but the weather was good last December. On an overcast or wet day, it does feel like it goes darker earlier than the official sunset time in this part of the world. Running it at 3.30pm might mean the race being run in poor visibility and would not be much good for the paying customers.
Would ITV want a racing broadcast going on until 4pm at Christmas?
Another thought I had is: what about security? As it stands now, the meeting on Boxing Day is run with the Melling Road open. There are no races over the National course and the meeting is fairly low key, despite having a Grade 1.
The King George at the track would make it the main meeting of the day. Outside of the National and Cheltenham, it must be the most watched jumps race of the year. As such, it would be a target for the animal rights crowd. An open Melling Road would be a Christmas gift to them to cause disruption.
I think the road would have to be closed and I can’t see local residents liking that very much over Christmas.
An example of a 3m+ chase being run last on a card in mid-winter is the Sandown Tingle Creek meeting (sunset ~3.53) at which the London National over 3m5f is run as last race at 3.35, which in overcast conditions must be a very gloomy 8 minutes or so
Has concern ever been raised about the lack of visibility during this race?
This was formerly the Mildmay Cazelet Chase run as the penultimate race circa 3pm at the January meeting
It is all hypothetical – I don’t think the King George will go to Aintree because of the low sun issue.
However, if it was moved to Aintree, running it as the last race on the card would be a risk. What would happen if there was a delay due to an incident in a previous race?
Running the main race of the day as the last race on the card probably wouldn’t be favoured by the police or by Merseyrail either, with almost everyone leaving at the same time.
Hypothetical indeed. Perhaps best to mothball this thread until the announcement ‘Kempton Park will shut on…’ and ‘bulldozers will move in on…’ or not: nothing’s certain yet is it?
Still think my cunning plan mentioned earlier of moving it to Huntingdon is a value bet at 100/1
New contributor. I’ve enjoyed the forum as a guest for a few years now. Re Kempton and Sandown, I go fairly regularly to both (I was at the Tingle Creek and Lanzarote days over the last 3 months). A couple of comments:
1. The Jockey Club have a finite amount of cash and it appears illogical for them to spend significant resources on 2 courses no more than 10 miles apart. I would argue that the £25m (in 2015) money spent at Epsom on the new stand was a terrible waste – it is used for so few days in a year. Better off erecting a giant tent for the 2 days of the Derby/Oaks! Does anyone really think spending tens of millions at Kempton is a good investment?
2. Kempton is looking very tired, but this doesn’t stop people attending. No-one cares if the facilities are tired. Most are interested in drinking and to a lesser extent the racing.
3. Kempton has poor public transport links, the train from Waterloo is half-hourly and very slow. Compare that to Esher on the fast line on South West Railways. Kempton may describe itself as “London’s racecourse”, but Sandown is preferred by the locals (in London) and has better viewing.
4. I agree that the going at Kempton for NH is generally good and the Sandown hurdles course is a disgrace over the winter. If trainers aren’t happy with the going, don’t run them there if the King George meeting was transferred to Sandown.
5. Better still, run the King George at Ascot on a Saturday around Christmas, would improve attendance and the facilities are good. I was there on Saturday and the going appeared ok.I get the impression the Jockey Club don’t want to move the King George from its traditional Boxing Day date. It is quite well set in people’s minds. If it was transferred to a movable date on the Saturday before Christmas, it might lose some of its identity and appeal.
Wouldn’t an Ascot King George be even more of a stamina test than Sandown? The climb from Swinley Bottom to the straight on very soft ground would put stamina at a premium.
As for Epsom, I wouldn’t have minded on money being spent if the new stand was better – but it isn’t. The old stand might not have been pretty but it was functional and provided for a great view, especially if you went right to the top.
Welcome shep, it’s always good to hear some new voices. You make some interesting points.
I think I’d mind less about a major heritage racecourse such as Kempton being lost if it were being replaced by another racecourse elsewhere. But it isn’t, and it just feels like another sad erosion of racing’s status.
Londoners might not have loved Kempton, but reducing the opportunities to go racing close to the capital also seems like a step in the wrong direction. As I’ve said previously, I think Kempton has been allowed to decline, and I’m not only talking about lack of investment on infrastructure, I’m also talking about a general lack of vision and intent.
I agree with CAS that the King George would probably lose some of what makes it special if it were moved from Boxing Day. If it really must change location, Aintree seems completely wrong to me, and Ascot or Sandown would be my preference.
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