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After todays win by Punjabi?
An awful lot of sneering by some when he won the CH. worst CH since the war etc etc
Delighted for Nicky Henderson. He was almost in tears talking about Mick Fitz in the post race interview.
I would never sneer when discussing Katchit. He’s an admirable horse. But I do think it was a poor Champion Hurdle and I can’t for the life of me see how Punjabi simply confirming Cheltenham form with three horses who finished behind him there and finished behind him again today amounts in any way to a "franking" of the form.
Punjabi franked the form?? Beating what, one opponent Sublimity (and he was given a poor ride).
Harchibald has gone at top level and the rest I could probably have beaten.
Katchit is a lovely little horse but he’s a Champion Hurdler only because something had to win that race. Sizing Europe is easily the best two mile hurdler around, I keep telling people this.
Next year will be a stronger year I think with Binocular coming through and one or two others.
Hardy Eustace has since proven he is a past number
By getting beaten, once, at a trip nearly everyone other than you thinks he doesn’t stay!
Never mind that he was beaten just a length in a Grade 1 less than a month before getting walloped by Sizing Europe.
Agree with comments that yesterday proved nothing just that Sublimity was an even poor Champion Hurdle winner than Katchit and that the obvious Champion is again Inglis Drever.
Just because he is not a flash bridle horse who comes there swinging at the last does not mean he is not a great Champion Hurdler.
There’s a Champion Hurdler every year. Some will be better than others. If the definition of a "great" Champion Hurdler is one who is better than the average CH winner and by some considerable way then Katchit is clearly not one.
Agree with comments that yesterday proved nothing just that Sublimity was an even poor Champion Hurdle winner than Katchit.
Sublimity has been a complete non-entity this year compared to what he showed last March. If you (not you personally, you understand) genuinely believe a cosy 3l defeat of Brave Inca, Afsoun & Hardy Eustace back then is equivalent form to losing by 3l to Punjabi and beating Ebaziyan 5l then IMO you should look again.
FWIW, I don’t think we can possibly be in a position yet to judge the relative merits of the 2007 & 2008 CHs, although people will already have their suspicions based on how highly they rate Katchit.I don’t see how Sizing Europe is the best hurdler given the form of his AIG win – Hardy Eustace has since proven he is a past number and Al Eile is extremely inconsistent.
Katchit is a game little bull, and in becoming the first horse since Persian War to win back to back Triumph/Champion hurdles is all the more remarkable.
Just because he is not a flash bridle horse who comes there swinging at the last does not mean he is not a great Champion Hurdler.
As I have said on here before, all of the talking horses got beat out of sight by Katchit, and all of the supporters of the beaten horses are quick to make excuses for their own horses and crib Katchit’s form.
A gross libel of Al Eile!
How can a horse who has won the Aintree hurdle in 2005,2007 and 2008 be deemed " extremely inconsistent"? Give him two and a half miles on a flat track and he is away. He beat Osana by 10l this year with Straw Bear behind. Has also beaten Inglis Drever in the race.The sequence was only interrupted when connections overraced him and he went to Aintree shortly after running fourth in the Champion at Cheltenham.
He also found time to win the December Festival Hurdle at Leopardstown this season.but he’s a Champion Hurdler only because something had to win that race
I think that those saying that Punjabi’s win makes no difference to the status of Katchit were probably the same as those saying that the CH form was held down by his proximity
Of course the win this week has franked the form. Not enhanced it maybe, but certainly given it further credibilty. Imagine the comments if he had been beaten?
Of course the win this week has franked the form. Not enhanced it maybe
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "franked". If you ignore the arguments about jockeyship, Punjabi confirmed himself better at level weights than Sublimity, Ebaziyan and Harchibald. However, if you take the view that beating those horses at level weights doesn’t amount to much at the present time then it’s hard to see what it does for Katchit’s reputation.
Agree with comments that yesterday proved nothing just that Sublimity was an even poor Champion Hurdle winner than Katchit.
Sublimity has been a complete non-entity this year compared to what he showed last March. If you (not you personally, you understand) genuinely believe a cosy 3l defeat of Brave Inca, Afsoun & Hardy Eustace back then is equivalent form to losing by 3l to Punjabi and beating Ebaziyan 5l then IMO you should look again.
FWIW, I don’t think we can possibly be in a position yet to judge the relative merits of the 2007 & 2008 CHs, although people will already have their suspicions based on how highly they rate Katchit.Sublimity only has 1 outstanding run behind him and that was the 2007 Champion Hurdle, which on reflection may not have been as good as it first seemed (none of those behind went on to achieve anything of note since). People talk of his run in the previous year’s Supreme Novice, but even the form of that race hasn’t been overly great.
genuinely believe a cosy 3l defeat of Brave Inca, Afsoun & Hardy Eustace
Hang on…
Much as i like Hardy, his subsequent form has not been that catching (not suprising at his age) Afsoun is Afsoun and Brave Inca could have (judging by one subsequent run) been on the downgrade. In fact his run prior to the CH might have suggested that
There were some familiar names with good past form in that field but that doesnt mean that the form of that race was good in itself
Should the title of this thread perhaps be – ‘Katchit A really tough and likeable horse that I’ve backed lots of times and made plenty of money from and developed a real affinity for, but it means I struggle to have an objective view on the relativive merits of a whole host of below-par two-mile hurdlers’
Though for space issues I see why you went with what you did
Maybe the theme of the thread should be that stats and trends merchants should try understanding the formbook rather than bleating because their daft theories fall apart …again
The current crop of hurdlers is by no means vintage, on that most of us can probably agree. But I don’t think it is as bad as certain people – who could not stomach a 5-y-o winning the Champion Hurdle (and not just any old 5-y-o, but Katchit) – are trying to make out in order to avoid admitting that they were wrong in the first place.
If you seriously think Hardy Eustace is the same horse as won 2 Champion Hurdles and is a useful yardstick in rating the form of Sizing Europe then you are very misguided.
Thank you for attempting to put me straight on that, but I do not think that Hardy Eustace is as good as he once was – and have never said that or implied it – and that was taken into account in my assessment of the race (which does not involve the crude use of “yardsticks”, incidentally).
I also still do not think that Hardy Eustace has “proven” (in one race, at 3m) since his run against Sizing Europe that he is a back number. Pray enlighten us how that is so.
I can’t make head or tail of the rest of your “reasoning” in that last post, by the way.
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