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I have watched umpteen 7f horses niggled along early to go faster in 6f races
What faster pace? They crawled.
Paco Boy has tons of speed and would have went faster in the Lennox, Foret and Queen Anne. Ryan Moore on Main Aim maximised his position by riding prominently when he saw the pace was slow.
A poor ride from Fortune, plain and simple, lacking in flexibility in the circumstances.Well you can argue that Fortune should have pushed Paco Boy from the stalls to be prominent (eg Murtagh’s US Ranger ride last year), but not being psychic and knowing that would be highly unlikely to work he probably settled for the usual hold up ride. What the video shows is Paco Boy close to flat out after the first furlong. It is the same old story. Sprinters go a stride faster than 7f/8f horses and that is enough to make the difference.
You are talking nonsense, with respect. Paco Boy was under no pressure to keep his position or anything he travelled well and smoothly within himself at no point was he struggling for pace. I think Steve Mellish hit the nail on the head when he said Fortune wanted to track Scenic Blast but had no plan B when it was obvious the race wasn’t going to be run to suit Scenic Blast.
To be honest I struggle to see how anyone can defend Fortune’s ride. I can understand Art Connoisseur being held up because he’s a tricky horse who has to have everything drop perfectly. Paco Boy is a different case entirely.
Paco Boy ran because had he won his value would have shot through the roof…
I fully understand that but my point was that wasn’t likely to happen- horse is a 7f – miler
There is no way Main Aim would have beaten Fleeting Spirit with a clear run.
It is not possible for anybody to determine who
would
have won the race if XYZ. What happened happened. But the benefit of the doubt should be given to the horse who has been affected and not the horse who caused the interference.
As I asked on here before, when was the last Group 1 in England winner to be thrown on in the stewards room
on the day
?
O.K. I will put it another way, had Main Aim not suffered inteference, I’d be at least 90% certain he would not have beaten Fleeting Spirit.
When you say the benefit of the doubt should be towards the affected horse, I agree with you David, 60-40 yes, they should get the race.
Value Is EverythingThere is no way Main Aim would have beaten Fleeting Spirit with a clear run.
It is not possible for anybody to determine who
would
have won the race if XYZ. What happened happened. But the benefit of the doubt should be given to the horse who has been affected and not the horse who caused the interference.
As I asked on here before, when was the last Group 1 in England winner to be thrown on in the stewards room
on the day
?
O.K. I will put it another way, had Main Aim not suffered inteference, I’d be at least 90% certain he would not have beaten Fleeting Spirit.
When you say the benefit of the doubt should be towards the affected horse, I agree with you David, 60-40 yes, they should get the race.
I’d say 50/50 myself. FS kicked about 2 lengths clear and was about 1 length clear when causing the interference which to my eye means Main Aim was closing as was the other unfotunate horse Kings Apostle. Bearing that in mind he should have been thrown out for affecting the places of two horses. I’d have had the forecast with JJ then as well
The stewards and the BHA are surely asking and deliberating on the wrong question in Britain at the moment when it comes to interference.
Instead of "did the interference affect the result?" the question they should be asking is, "did the interference
prevent us from knowing
if the result was affected?". The answer to this question is a better output, imho, when deliberating on a finish.
This would redress the balance in favour of horses and riders who run straight and in some way move towards the global ideal of horseraces where runners do not collide with each other regularly, compromising sporting, integrity and saftey issues.
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I was glad to see Fleeting Spirit get on the Group 1 scoresheet, even if she did have to chin Main Aim to do it, but Jimmy Fortune’s effort on Paco Boy was laughable. Sometimes I think he’s one of the best jockeys to have on your side and other times, as today proves, he seems so tactically unaware it’s untrue.
I’ve knocked Richard Hughes in the past, many times, but I don’t believe for one second he’d have had Paco Boy so far off the lead (especially given how he travelled at Ascot).
You are talking nonsense, with respect. Paco Boy was under no pressure to keep his position or anything he travelled well and smoothly within himself at no point was he struggling for pace. I think Steve Mellish hit the nail on the head when he said Fortune wanted to track Scenic Blast but had no plan B when it was obvious the race wasn’t going to be run to suit Scenic Blast.
To be honest I struggle to see how anyone can defend Fortune’s ride. I can understand Art Connoisseur being held up because he’s a tricky horse who has to have everything drop perfectly. Paco Boy is a different case entirely.
Well for someone who cannot tell the difference between Richard Hughes and Jimmy Fortune you are obviously something of a judge. You will find that the official form book uses the words "soon outpaced" about Paco Boy.
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Aside from the fact that the ‘official form book’ can’t be considered gospel, Richard Hughes wasn’t riding Paco Boy.
After seeing it again on RPTV, Main Aim is clearly really unlucky and is the only horse imo posting a serious threat to the winner after the check he had zero chance but still recovered to take 2nd which shows how much he had left, but the thing would be would Fleeting Spirit if keeping a straight line would of bolted even further, even after the incident she again showed a turn of foot so it be hard to see her not losing the raace, but I would be thinking that Stoute and connections would be not happy with the outcome.
Just watched a replay of the race.
I can’t blame Jimmy Fortune for the eclipse of Paco Boy. He did very little wrong, in my opinion.
He was outpaced in the early stages, travelled well in the middle of the race, was found wanting when Fleeting Spirit quickened clear, only to stay on in the final furlong.
Yes, he travelled well in the middle of the race, but very few weren’t given the fairly sedate pace. Jimmy ended up in the middle of the track from his position in stall one and, given that’s where the race unfolded, he had little option.
They sauntered for the first three to four furlongs and it should come as no surprise that the race was won by a filly who has never won over further than five and was primarily campaigned with that trip in mind.
The runner-up, Main Aim, is clearly a seven furlong specialist who has the tools to operate at six. J J The Jet Plane has shown good ability over six, but it’s no surprise that De Kock feels that a mile could be his trip and the fourth, Paco Boy, is a top class seven furlong / mile performer and ran like one.
However, he has the ability to contend with the best over six and would have been seen to greater effect if they had quickened the tempo mid-race.
Nice to see Fleeting Spirit win a Group One. She’s come up against some good horses in her short career, but I have a feeling she stole the race yesterday under a very astute ride and if she goes to Haydock I’d consider opposing her if there appears to be guaranteed pace in the race.
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Paco Boy ran because had he won his value would have shot through the roof…
I fully understand that but my point was that wasn’t likely to happen- horse is a 7f – miler
Not likely to happen? Are you serious. Paco Boy was handy enough and was travelling like a dream until they started coming down the hill. You can see Jimmy having to get down to the ride position much earlier than he wanted too. That cost him the race IMO. Had it been at another course 6f or no 6f he would have gone very close or won.
If you think he can’t win a grade 1 at 6f I reckon your sadly mistaken.
BTW I backed JJTJP ew and have no axe to grind by defending Paco Boy or Jimmy Fortune..
You are talking nonsense, with respect. Paco Boy was under no pressure to keep his position or anything he travelled well and smoothly within himself at no point was he struggling for pace. I think Steve Mellish hit the nail on the head when he said Fortune wanted to track Scenic Blast but had no plan B when it was obvious the race wasn’t going to be run to suit Scenic Blast.
To be honest I struggle to see how anyone can defend Fortune’s ride. I can understand Art Connoisseur being held up because he’s a tricky horse who has to have everything drop perfectly. Paco Boy is a different case entirely.
Well for someone who cannot tell the difference between Richard Hughes and Jimmy Fortune you are obviously something of a judge. You will find that the official form book uses the words "soon outpaced" about Paco Boy.
I’d suggest you don’t become petty it really doesn’t do much other than come across as a little childish.
It was a typo of course I knew Fortune was riding the horse but as Hughes usually does it just came natural to write the name Hughes, it happens presumably you’ve done it yourself in verbal form if not in written.
As for formbook quotes I don’t know what they say about Paco Boy as I don’t use them but regardless Paco Boy was in no way outpaced in the July Cup.
My general point was that the horse is considered to be a 7f specialist who gets a mile. He has won Group 1s over 7f in France (last season) and 1 mile in the UK ( Royal Ascot this season). There are not many Group 1 races over 7f in the UK ,which basically forced the trainer’s hand to go for the mile which he felt was within the horse’s compass as it got a year older. There was much discussion as to whether it actually got the mile which seemed to have been put to bed after the Ascot performance. The trainer also expressed a view that the horse required a bit of give in the ground and would never be risked on fast going. thus he was talking about top 7f and mile races in France and the UK.
I was therefore surprised to see it line up for a sprint race (hasn’t run over that distance since it was a 2 year old), on good to firm against specialist sprinters where the winner produced a time just outside the track record and with a substitute jockey.
As to how the tactics or race panned out , its performance was described on the Sporting Life website as "never reached leaders, too much to do" or in the RP as "outpaced 2f out going into the dip"- everyone has their opinion and you take your pick!From comments made to the press and on his website it was obvious that Hannon didn’t want to go Dubai first time up , doesn’t want to go to a Breeders Cup and probably didn’t want to run yesterday.
The horse didn’t have a hard race (didn’t see Fortune use the whip) and I hope it comes out of the race OK as it is a faourite of mine and bargain buy at £30k.
The owners are always right as they pay the bills but I’d like to see them listen to the trainer and campaign over 7f and a mile where there is some juice and not over sprint distances.
The July Cup is a race that often favours horses coming back in trip as the course is a very stiff 6f. Green Desert, Ajdal, Chief Singer, Mozart, Stravinsky, Mr Brooks ……….. correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they all win the July Cup having been previously campaigned over further?
The July Cup is a race that often favours horses coming back in trip as the course is a very stiff 6f. Green Desert, Ajdal, Chief Singer, Mozart, Stravinsky, Mr Brooks ……….. correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they all win the July Cup having been previously campaigned over further?
You can add Thatch to that list and he was probably better than any of those.
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