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John Gosden is the boss – the Italian fellow just an employee

Home Forums Horse Racing John Gosden is the boss – the Italian fellow just an employee

Viewing 17 posts - 18 through 34 (of 109 total)
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  • #1603371
    Marginal Value
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    • Total Posts 690

    The different interpretations that people in the wide world of horse racing have given to John Gosden’s criticism of Frankie Dettori is very interesting. My view: Dettori deviated from the plan. Maybe in the early stages the other horses/jockeys did not do what was expected, but whichever way you look at it Dettori made a mistake of analysis or judgement. There have been times when Dettori has deviated from a plan and won a big race because his judgement was spot on. Just like many other good jockeys. What came as a surprise to me was John Gosden losing his cool and heading straight to the press to let the world know how much he did not like Dettori’s actions. John Gosden, like all other trainers, is a human being, which makes it a 100% probability that he has made many mistakes which have cost a horse a big prize. But I cannot recall an owner, jockey, vet, work rider, groom, going public with their view that: the horse should never have been asked to race on such a hard/soft surface, over such a long/short distance, after such a long/short gap since its last race, after such a long/short time to recover from injury, after such a long trip overseas, etc etc.

    It is no longer the 1980s, or 1890s come to that, and most people understand much better these days how to get success from good teamwork. I can understand John Gosden having a right old barney with Frankie Dettori over his ride in Stradivarious’s race (in private), but with an eye to the future, and the wider connotations, it is not a good look to make the press your first port of call.

    #1603374
    IanDavies
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    • Total Posts 4711

    I think I agree.

    Gosden is entitled to his opinion, but whereas others are entitled to be publicly critical if they wish, Gosden should not allow himself that luxury.

    He is Dettori’s EMPLOYER and to publicly criticise your EMPLOYEE is rank bad management.

    Behind closed doors is the place for that sort of thing.

    But let’s be honest – Gosden probably wishes he’d been born and lived in the 19th, or even, 18th century.

    Does Golden Horn even win the Arc without the ride of sheer tactical genius Dettori gave it?

    How soon they forget.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1603388
    Cork All Star
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    • Total Posts 3624

    From today’s Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/jun/20/talking-horses-frankie-dettori-royal-ascot-racing-review

    Gosden’s comments after the Prix de Diane are worth noting:

    “The youth team..are obviously taking over here. It’s quite obvious I’ll be surplus to requirements quite soon, and it’ll be the youth with Hollie and Thady.”

    I doubt an intelligent man like Gosden did not have any idea what would be read into those remarks.

    #1603408
    IanDavies
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    • Total Posts 4711

    He’s not letting it go, is he?

    There are few, if any, words spoken purely in jest in this game.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1603678
    Chivers1987
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    • Total Posts 905

    Not wishing to blow anything out of proportion just yet but this could be it for the team. The Doyler rides Sunray Major, Havlin on Stowell, both at Newmarket, where Frankie rides for Mr. Beckett.

    Maybe they just need a little break.

    #1603680
    FinalFurlong91
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    • Total Posts 4582

    Yep was just about to say that chivers

    Looks like dettori and gosden are done

    #1603685
    Cork All Star
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    • Total Posts 3624

    It is certainly going to send the rumour mill into overdrive.

    It was wrong of Gosden to criticise Dettori in public, especially through sarcastic language like calling him “our hero”.

    Dettori had a bad week for sure, although I am still not convinced Stradivarius would have won. It is Gosden’s right to not use him – but even allowing for Dettori’s bad week, is Hollie Doyle (rumoured to be his replacement) a better jockey than him? Not for me she isn’t.

    #1603687
    seaing stars
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    • Total Posts 132
    #1603688
    IanDavies
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    • Total Posts 4711

    He’s failed to get a hood off a horse at the start of a Group 1, he’s let an aging multiple Gold Cup winner lose his place, relying on a turn of foot the horse no longer has at the end of a moderately-run race, and, worst of all, he’s come from a different F ing postal district on Saga to get beat when it was my biggest bet of the week (win only obviously) and my double-digit odds nap in the TRF competition!

    Frankie Dettori had a Royal Ascot shocker and a steering job on Inspiral doesn’t make up for it.

    But all of that said, it was rank bad management by Gosden to publicly criticise the guy who nicked an Arc for him on Golden Horn and Dettori has my sympathy on this one.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1603698
    Ex RubyLight
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    • Total Posts 2490

    FF91, it really looks like Gosden and Dettori seem to be done. But I guess there is a lot of influence coming from some owners or their respective racing managers. Maybe the change was already on the agenda or maybe I’m reading too much into it and it really is just a short break.

    Let’s see what happens at the July meeting. Maybe Frankie will ride a lot more abroad, especially at the weekends or at Deauville during the entire August.

    #1603710
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 1722

    Gosden is not usually one to air his dirty laundry but I think this was a culmination of not just one thing going pear shaped but several things and on top of trying to secure the Queen a winner at Royal Ascot for a very special milestone celebration and it being Strad’s last Gold Cup attempt and this being the third time that Dettori hasn’t been at his best onboard him….I think he just had a human moment and reacted before really thinking it through.

    This could all be a storm in a tea cup that could blow over given a little time and reflection but the biggest tell might well be whether he put Dettori up on the next big G1 race that comes along where Gosden has an entry, probably the Eclipse as I think Lord North (funny enough) does hold an an engagement.

    #1603711
    IanDavies
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4711

    “I think he just had a human moment”

    It’s not a single moment, though.

    It’s three public comments on three different days.

    On the Thursday itself, the next day after Inspiral had won and yet again on the Sunday after Nashwa’s victory.

    I just think it was really poor from Gosden.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1603718
    Chivers1987
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    • Total Posts 905

    I thought Gosden was particularly harsh after the victory of Inspiral.

    “Our hero overcomplicated it yesterday and I was clear in my definition of that. I think it’s right to say what you think. It’s over, it’s past, it’s finished and we move on.”

    I don’t like how he used the term “Our Hero” as a sarcastic put down. No need for it. Also, clearly it wasn’t finished and wasn’t in the past.

    Other than that, I have no real opinion of the temporary or permanent split. If he or the owners are not happy with his performances on a regular basis then decisions have to be made.
    Freelance Frankie to win the 2023 jockeys championship. You heard it here first.

    #1603728
    FinalFurlong91
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4582

    Gosden has shown a distinct lack of class over the last week or so

    You’d think he’d be more loyal to a jockey who has served him so well

    Though he has always given a bit of an indication he’s not overly enamored with frankies celebrity status and showmanship

    It all seemed to start with his criticism of his ride on Palace pier in the QEII

    #1603734
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1722

    Hang on a minute Gosden has been extremely loyal to Frankie over the years especially following the drugs ban, yes he would have been bettered served to have kept his own council but I am pretty sure there is a whole lot more that we are not aware of fueling this spat.

    This issue goes back further than Palace Pier in last years QE2, I think it was Strad’s run in last years Gold Cup and then his blaming of the Irish jockeys tactics in the Long Distance Cup defeat and then obviously the multiple gaffs at Royal Ascot.

    Interesting that Betfair have Hollie Doyle as 4-11 to be stable jockey next year

    #1603736
    clivexx
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    • Total Posts 2439

    Jockeys are horrible midgets who would be sweeping chimneys or in the circus if it wasn’t for the likes of gosden

    #1603738
    Cork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3624

    Dettori unfairly blamed Hollie Doyle when he got beaten on Snowfall at Longchamp last year.

    I wonder what his reaction will be if she takes over from him? 😉

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